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To: Alamo-Girl

Well, I’m not going to go 12 rounds with you on this, but I would like to know how you know St. Paul’s usage in Titus 3 is defined as you say it is. It is not elaborated on in the Scripture cited, so, since there is no self-referencing of the passage in Scripture itself, the definition you use must come from a different source. This makes Scripture not as “perspicuous” as the Reforemers alleged, and seems to be perilously close to creating one of the “traditions of men” that elsewhere you make a point of pushing away from. I’m not trying to argue so much as I’m trying to see the thought process here.


365 posted on 02/29/2008 11:26:21 AM PST by magisterium
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To: magisterium; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; Manfred the Wonder Dawg; Quix; hosepipe; ...
It is not elaborated on in the Scripture cited, so, since there is no self-referencing of the passage in Scripture itself, the definition you use must come from a different source.

To the contrary, I receive Scripture as a whole revelation. When I say I do not engage in discussions of genealogies and offer you Titus 3:9 as reference, I’m speaking of “genealogy” in Light of the Word of God.

Jesus announced the difference between the genealogical promise (Judaism) and the faith promise (Christianity.)

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. – Matthew 3:9

Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. – John 8:53-59

And again,

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. – Romans 4:13

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. – Galatians 3:6-9

Our Father is God, not man. Christ explains the family this way:

While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. – Matthew 12:46-50

And again, the family of God is born of God alone:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1:12-13

If the family of God were born “of blood” or “of the will of the flesh” or “of the will of man” then it would be indeed genealogical either by birth (blood) or something physical like laying on of hands (flesh) or desire/ideology (will).

But it is not. We are born of God.

The lesson with reference to the third part, will, can be seen in Simon’s desire to buy the Holy Spirit from Peter so that he could pass it on himself by laying on hands (flesh.) (Acts 8)

The lesson of the first two parts is in the conversion of Cornelius. Cornelius was not Jewish (blood.) Moreover, he was born into the family of God (received the Spirit) before Peter layed his hands on him, baptized him or even finished telling him about Jesus (flesh). (Acts 10:44-47, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 15:1)

As Peter said, “what was I that I could withstand God?”

So there is only one genealogy that matters – we must be born again.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. – John 3:6-7

If you, magisterium, were reborn when someone laid his hands on you in the Catholic sacrament of confirmation, then good for you. But give God the glory. It wasn’t the man or his hands or the sacrament or the lineage of the Catholic church – but God who make you anew.

Likewise, if someone else was reborn under different circumstances, then good for them. But give God the glory. Because God alone makes any of us anew.

Thus I again aver that I will not engage in discussion of genealogies – whether of blood, flesh or will. It is vanity.

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do]. – I Timothy 1:4

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. – Titus 3:9

To God be the glory!

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. - Romans 8:15


395 posted on 02/29/2008 1:38:14 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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