Posted on 03/09/2008 8:33:45 PM PDT by Pyro7480
“Mind you, the Messiah must do these things, not die and have his followers claim, ex post facto, that he’ll come back someday and finish the job.”
Link please....
“A mostly complete list of Old Testament criteria for the messiah to accomplish.”
You’re joking right. I think you left out one or two...to put it mildly.
“Empty tomb = tomb robbers”
Yeah...ok. While it was under guard. Tomb was opened on the third day, in front of the Roman guard, without human intervention...and it was empty. Nothing was buried with Christ except the wrappings...so what was the motivation to try to open the grave then while it was being guarded by Romans??
You want to talk prophesy...then let’s talk.
You cut and paste 23 lines on the internet and label them “a mostly complete list of OT ‘criteria’ (whatever that means) for the Messiah to accomplish”
You do realize you’re off by more than an order of magnitude? We’ll address your inaccuracy later, but for now....
Think about this...
The book Science Speaks, written by Peter Stone M.S., who has been the chairman of the departments of mathematics and astronomy at Pasadena City College, Chairman of the science division, Westmont College; and professor emeritus of science, Westmont College sheds light on the difficulty of one man fulfilling just a small fraction of God’s Messianic prophesies.
H. Harold Hartzler, of the American Scientific Affiliation, Goshen College, in the foreward of Peter Stoner’s book writes: “The manuscript for Science Speaks has been carefully reviewed by a committee of the American Scientific Affiliation members and by the Executive Council of the same group and has been found, in general, to be dependable and accurate in regard to the scientific material presented. The mathematical analysis included is based upon principles of probabilty which are thoroughly sound and Professor Stoner has applied these principles in a proper and convincing way.”
Stoner started by focusing on only 8 of the 61 major prophecies given in the O.T. fulfilled according to the N.T. by Jesus Christ.
1. Place of birth (Micah 5:3).
2. Preceded by messenger (Isaiah 40:3 and Malachi 3:1.
3. He was to enter Jerusalem on a donkey Zechariah 9:9
4. Betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9
5. Sold for 30 pcs. of silver Zechariah 11:12
6. Money to be thrown in God’s house and given for potter’s field Zechariah 11:13
7. Silent before accusers Isaiah 53:7
8. Crucified Psalm 22:16, Isaiah 53:12
This is what Stoner states in his book Science Speaks:
“We find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 10 to the 17 power. That would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000.”
Stoner considers forty-eight prophecies and reports,
“We find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 prophecies to be 1 in 10 to the 157th power.”
Beside your ‘almost exhaustive list’...below are just a few additional ones...
I like the ones talking about the Messiah being pierced through, being crucified and hung on trees, rising again. Does that happen right after the ‘all nation leaders’ meeting He chairs?? Yeah...they really looked to Him right before they put Him to death. And they put Him to death AS PROPHESIZED.
Me thinks your logic and sequence of events is a little askew.
I don’t know if you know God, or how he like to undo things Satan does....how God like irony. But don’t you think that it’s kind of neat how God allows sin to be introduced through the first Adam via the fruit of a tree...then UNDOES it by His PERFECT Son, the second Adam, via hanging perfect fruit on a tree? Christ called on His followers to eat His flesh....the flesh hanging the tree....an man made tree.
Doesn’t that kind of tantelize you!?
324 Messianic Prophecies
Gen. 3:15.....He will bruise Satan’s head.....Heb. 2:14, 1 Jn. 3:18
Gen. 5:24....The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated....Mk. 6:19
Gen. 9:26,27...The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem...Lu. 3:36
Gen. 12:3...As Abraham’s seed,will bless all nations...Acts. 3:25,26
Gen. 12:7...The Promise made to Abraham’s Seed...Gal. 3:16
Gen. 14:18...A priest after Melchizedek...Heb. 6:20
Gen. 14:18........A King also........Heb. 7:2
Gen. 14:18...The Last Supper foreshadowed...Mt. 26:26-29
Gen. 17:19.......The Seed of Isaac.......Rom. 9:7
Gen. 22:8...The Lamb of God promised...Jn. 1:29
Gen. 22:18...As Isaac’s seed, will bless all nations...Gal. 3:16
Gen.26:2-5..The Seed of Isaac promised as the Redeemer..Heb.11:18
Gen. 49:10...The time of His coming...Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4
Gen. 49:10.......The Seed of Judah.......Lu. 3:33
Gen. 49:10......Called Shiloh or One Sent......Jn. 17:3
Gen. 49:10...To come before Judah lost identity...Jn. 11:47-52
Gen. 49:10...To Him shall the obedience of the people be...Jn. 10:16
Ex. 3:13,14........The Great “I Am”.......Jn. 4:26
Ex. 12:5...A Lamb without blemish...1 Pet. 1:19
Ex. 12:13...The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath...Rom. 5:8
Ex. 12:21-27...Christ is our Passover...1 Cor. 5;7
Ex. 12:46...Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken...Jn. 19:31-36
Ex. 15:2...His exaltation predicted as Yeshua...Acts 7:55,56
Ex. 15:11...His Character-Holiness...Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27
Ex. 17:6...The Spiritual Rock of Israel...1 Cor. 10;4
Ex. 33:19...His Character-Merciful...Lu. 1:72
Lev.14:11..The leper cleansed-Sign to priesthood..Lu.5:12-14; Acts 6:7
Lev.16:15-17...Prefigures Christ’s once-for-all death...Heb. 9:7-14
Lev.16:27...Suffering outside the Camp...Mt. 27:33; Heb. 13:11, 12
Lev.17:11...The Blood-the life of the flesh...Mt. 26;28; Mk. 10:45
Lev.17:11...It is the blood that makes atonement...1 Jn. 3:14-18
Lev.23:36-37...The Drink-offering: “If any man thirst.” ..Jn. 19:31-36
Num. 9:12...Not a bone of Him broken...John 19:31-36
Num. 21:9...The serpent on a pole-Christ lifted up...Jn. 3:14-18
Num. 24:17...Time: “I shall see him, but not now.”...Gal. 4:4
Deut. 18:15...”This is of a truth that prophet.”...Jn. 6:14
Deut. 18:15-16...”Had ye believed Moses, ye would believe me.”...Jn. 5:45-47
Deut. 18:18...Sent by the Father to speak His word...Jn. 8:28, 29
Deut. 18:19...Whoever will not hear must bear his sin...Jn. 12:15,
Deut. 21:23...Cursed is he that hangs on a tree...Gal. 3:10-13
Ruth 4:4-9...Christ, our kinsman, has redeemed us...Eph. 1:3-7
1 Sam. 2:10...Shall be an anointed King to the Lord...Mt. 28:18; Jn. 12:15
2 Sam. 7:12...David’s Seed...Mt. 1:1
2 Sam. 7:14a...The Son of God... Lu. 1:32
2 Sam. 7:16...David’s house established forever...Lu. 3:31; Rev. 22:16
2 Ki. 2:11...The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated...Lu. 24:51
1 Chr. 17:11...David’s Seed...Mt. 1:1; 9:27
1 Chr. 17:12, 13a...To reign on David’s throne forever...Lu. 1:32, 33
1 Chr. 17:13a...”I will be His Father, He...my Son.”...Heb. 1:5
Job 19:23-27...The Resurrection predicted...Jn. 5:24-29
Psa. 2:1-3...The enmity of kings foreordained...Acts 4:25-28
Psa. 2:2...To own the title, Anointed (Christ)...Acts 2:36
Ps. 2:6...His Character-Holiness...Jn. 8:46; Rev. 3:7
Ps. 2:6...To own the title King...Mt. 2:2
Ps. 2:7...Declared the Beloved Son...Mt. 3;17
Psa. 2:7, 8...The Crucifixion and Resurrection intimated...Acts 13:29-33
Psa. 2:12...Life comes through faith in Him...Jn. 20:31
Psa. 8:2...The mouths of babes perfect His praise...Mt. 21:16
Psa. 8:5, 6...His humiliation and exaltation...Lu. 24:50-53; 1 Cor. 15:27
Psa. 16:10...Was not to see corruption...Acts 2:31
Psa. 16:9-11...Was to arise from the dead...Jn. 20:9
Psa. 17;15...The resurrection predicted...Lu. 24:6
Psa. 22:1...Forsaken because of sins of others...2 Cor. 5:21
Psa. 22:1...Words spoken from Calvary, “My God...” Mk. 15:34
Psa. 22:2...Darkness upon Calvary...Mt. 27:45
Psa. 22:7...They shoot out the lip and shake the head...Mt. 27:39
Psa. 22:8.."He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him”...Mt. 27:43
Psa. 22:9......Born the Saviour......Lu. 2:7
Psa. 22:14...Died of a broken (ruptured)heart...Jn. 19:34
Psa. 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mk. 15:34-37
Psa. 22:15........He thirsted........Jn. 19:28
Psa. 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....Jn. 19:34,37;20:27
Psa. 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Lu. 23:34,35
Psa. 22:18.....They parted His garments.....Jn. 19:23,24
Psa. 22:20,21...He committed Himself to God...Lu.23:46
Psa. 22:20,21..Satanic power bruising the Redeemer’s heel..Heb. 2:14
Psa. 22:22.....His Resurrection declared.....Jn. 20:17
Psa. 22:27...He shall be the governor of the nations...Col 1:16
Psa. 22:31......"It is finished”......Jn. 19:30
Psa. 23:1...."I am the Good Shephard”....Jn. 10:11
Psa. 24:3......His exaltation predicted......Acts 1:11; Phil. 2:9
Psa. 30:3......His resurrection predicted......Acts 2:32
Psa. 31:5..."Into thy hands I commit my spirit”...Lu. 23:46
Psa. 31:11...His acquaintances fled from Him...Mk. 14:50
Psa. 31:13...They took counsel to put Him to death...Jn. 11:53
Psa. 31:14,15...” He trusted in God, let Him deliver him”...Mt. 27:43
Psa. 34:20.....Not a bone of Him broken.....Jn 19:31-36
Psa. 35:11....False witnesses rose up against Him....Mt. 26:59
Psa. 35:19...He was hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25
Psa. 38:11.....His friends stood afar off.....Lu. 23:49
Psa. 40:2-5...The joy of His resurrection predicted...Jn. 20:20
Psa. 40:6-8....His delight-the will of the Father....Jn. 4:34
Psa. 40:9....He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel....Mt. 4:17
Psa. 40:14...Confronted by adversaries in the Garden...Jn. 18:4-6
Psa. 41:9.....Betrayed by a familiar friend.....Jn. 13:18
Psa. 45:2...Words of Grace come from His lips...Lu. 4:22
Psa. 45:6...To own the title, God or Elohim...Heb. 1:8
Psa. 45:7...A special anointing by the Holy Spirit...Mt.3:16; Heb.1:9
Psa. 45:7,8...Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)...Lu. 2:11
Psa. 55:12-14...Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy...Jn. 13:18
Psa. 55:15...Unrepentant death of the Betrayer...Mt. 27:3-5; Acts 1:16-19
Psa. 68:18...To give gifts to men...Eph. 4:7-16
Psa. 68:18...Ascended into Heaven...Lu. 24:51
Psa. 69:4...Hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25
Psa. 69:8...A stranger to own brethren...Lu. 8;20,21
Psa. 69:9...Zealous for the Lord’s House...Jn. 2:17
Psa. 69:14-20...Messiah’s anguish of soul before crucifixion...Mt. 26:36-45
Psa. 69:20..."My soul is exceeding sorrowful.”...Mt. 26:38
Psa. 69:21...Given vinegar in thirst...Mt. 27:34
Psa. 69:26...The Saviour given and smitten by God...Jn. 17:4; 18:11
Psa. 72:10,11...Great persons were to visit Him...Mt. 2:1-11
Psa. 72:16...The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground...Jn. 12:24
Psa. 72:17...His name, Yinon, will produce offspring...Jn. 1:12,13
Psa. 72:17...All nations shall be blessed by Him...Acts 2:11,12,41
Psa. 78:1.2...He would teach in parables...Mt. 13:34-35
Psa. 78:2b...To speak the Wisdom of God with authority...Mt. 7:29
Psa. 88:8...They stood afar off and watched...Lu. 23:49
Psa. 89:27...Emmanuel to be higher than earthly kings...Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:35-37...David’s Seed, throne, kingdom endure forever...Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:36-37...His character-Faithfulness...Rev. 1:5
Psa. 90:2...He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2)...Jn. 1:1
Psa. 91:11,12...Identified as Messianic; used to tempt Christ...Lu. 4;10,11
Psa. 97:9...His exaltation predicted...Acts 1:11;Eph. 1:20
Psa. 100:5...His character-Goodness...Mt. 19:16,17
Psa. 102:1-11...The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary...Jn. 21:16-30
Psa. 102:25-27...Messiah is the Preexistent Son...Heb. 1:10-12
Psa. 109:25...Ridiculed...Mt. 27:39
Psa. 110:1...Son of David...Mt. 22:43
Psa. 110:1...To ascend to the right-hand of the Father...Mk.16:19
Psa. 110:1...David’s son called Lord...Mt. 22:44,45
Psa. 110:4...A priest after Melchizedek’s order...Heb. 6:20
Psa. 112:4...His character-Compassionate, Gracious, et al... Mt. 9;36
Psa. 118:17,18...Messiah’s Resurrection assured...Lu. 24:5-7;1 Cor. 15:20
Psa. 118:22,23...The rejected stone is Head of the corner...Mt. 21:42,43
Psa. 118:26a...The Blessed One presented to Israel...Mt. 21:9
Psa. 118:26b...To come while Temple standing...Mt. 21;12-15
Psa. 132:11...The Seed of David(the fruit of His Body)...Lu. 1:32
Psa. 138:1-6...The supremacy of David’s Seed amazes kings... Mt. 2:2-6
Psa. 147:3,6...The earthly ministry of Christ described...Lu. 4:18
Psa. 1:23...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16;7
Song. 5;16...The altogether lovely One...Jn. 1:17
Isa. 6:1...When Isaiah saw His glory... Jn. 12:40-41
Isa. 6:9-10...Parables fall on deaf ears...Mt. 13:13-15
Isa. 6:9-12...Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words...Acts. 28:23-29
Isa. 7:14...To be born of a virgin...Lu. 1:35
Isa. 7:14...To be Emmanuel-God with us... Mt. 1:18-23
Isa. 8:8...Called Emmanuel...Mt. 28:20
Isa. 8:14...A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense... 1 Pet. 2:8
Isa. 9:1,2...His ministry to begin in Galilee...Mt. 4:12-17
Isa. 9:6...A child born-Humanity...Lu. 1:31
Isa. 9:6...A Son given-Deity...Lu. 1:32; Jn. 1;14; 1 Tim. 3:16
Isa. 9:6...Declared to be the Son of God with power... Rom. 1:3,4
Isa. 9:6...The Wonderful One, Peleh...Lu. 4:22
Isa. 9:6...The Counsellor, Yaatz...Mt. 13:54
Isa. 9:6...The Mighty God, El Gibor...Mt. 11:20
Isa. 9:6...The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth...Jn. 8:58
Isa. 9:6...The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom...Jn . 16:33
Isa. 9:7...To establish an everlasting kingdom...Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 9:7...His Character-Just...Jn. 5:30
Isa. 9:7...No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace...Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 11:1...Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer...Mt. 2:23
Isa. 11:1...A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse...Lu. 3:23,32
Isa. 11:2...The anointed One by the Spirit...Mt. 3;16,17
Isa. 11:2...His Character-Wisdom, Understanding, et al....Jn. 4:4-26
Isa. 11:4...His Character-Truth...Jn. 14:6
Isa. 11:10...The Gentiles seek Him...Jn. 12:18-21
Isa. 12:2...Called Jesus-Yeshua...Mt. 1:21
Isa. 25:8...The Resurrection predicted...I Cor. 15:54
Isa. 26:19...His power of Resurrection predicted...Jn. 11:43,44
Isa. 28:16...The Messiah is the precious corner stone...Acts 4:11,12
Isa. 29:13...He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word...Mt. 15:7-9
Isa. 29:14...The wise are confounded by the Word...I Cor. 1:18-31
Isa. 32:2...A Refuge-A man shall be a hiding place...Mt. 23:37
Isa. 35:4...He will come and save you...Mt. 1:21
Isa. 35:5...To have a ministry of miracles...Mt. 11:4-6
Isa. 40:3,4...Preceded by forerunner...Jn. 1:23
Isa. 40:9...”Behold your God.”...Jn. 1:36;19:14
Isa. 40:11...A shepherd-compassionatelife-giver...Jn. 10:10-18
Isa. 42:1-4...The Servant-as a faithful, patient redeemer... Mt.12:18-21
Isa. 42:2...Meek and lowly... Mt. 11:28-30
Isa. 42:3...He brings hope for the hopeless... Jn. 4
Isa. 42:4...The nations shall wait on His teachings... Jn. 12:20-26
Isa. 42:6...The Light (salvation) of the Gentiles...Lu. 2:32
Isa. 42:1,6...His is a Worldwide compassion... Mt. 28:19,20
Isa. 42:7...Blind eyes opened... Jn. 9:25-38
Isa. 43:11...He is the only Saviour... Acts. 4:12
Isa. 44:3...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16:7,13
Isa. 45:23...He will be the Judge... Jn. 5:22;Rom. 14:11
Isa. 48:12...The First and the Last...Jn. 1:30;Rev. 1:8,17
Isa. 48:17...He came as a Teacher...Jn. 3:2
Isa. 49:1...Called from the womb-His humanity...Mt. 1:18
Isa. 49:5...A Servant from the womb...Lu. 1:31;Phil. 2:7
Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation for Israel...Lu. 2:29-32
Isa. 49:6...He is the Light of the Gentiles...Acts 13:47
Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation unto the ends of the earth... Acts 15:7-18
Isa. 49:7...He is despised of the Nation... Jn. 8:48-49
Isa. 50:3...Heaven is clothed in black at His humiliation... Lu. 23:44,45
Isa. 50:4...He is a learned counsellor for the weary... Mt. 11:28,29
Isa. 50:5...The Servant bound willingly to obedience... Mt. 26:39
Isa. 50:6a...”I gave my back to the smiters.”... Mt. 27:26
Isa. 50:6b...He was smitten on the cheeks... Mt. 26:67
Isa. 50:6c...He was spat upon... Mt. 27:30
Isa. 52:7...To publish good tidings of peace... Lu. 4:14,15
Isa. 52:13...The Servant exalted...Acts 1:8-11; Eph. 1:19-22
Isa. 52:13...Behold, My Servant... Mt. 17:5; Phil. 2:5-8
Isa. 52:14...The Servant shockingly abused... Lu. 18:31-34; Mt. 26:67,68
Isa. 52:15...Nations startled by message of the Servant... Rom. 15:18-21
Isa. 52:15...His blood shed to make atonement for all... Rev. 1:5
Isa. 53:1...His people would not believe Him... Jn. 12:37-38
Isa. 53:2a...He would grow up in a poor family.... Lu. 2:7
Isa. 53:2b...Appearance of an ordinary man... Phil. 2:7-8
Isa. 53:3a...Despised.... Lu. 4:28-29
Isa. 53:3b...Rejected... Mt. 27:21-23
Isa. 53:3c...Great sorrow and grief... Lu. 19:41-42
Isa. 53:3d...Men hide from being associated with Him... Mk. 14:50-52
Isa. 53:4a...He would have a healing ministry... Lu. 6:17-19
Isa. 53:4b...He would bear the sins of the world... 1 Pet. 2:24
Isa. 53:4c...Thought to be cursed by God... Mt. 27:41-43
Isa. 53:5a...Bears penalty for mankind’s transgressions... Lu. 23:33
Isa. 53:5b...His sacrifice would provide peace between man and God... Col. 1:20
Isa. 53:5c...His back would be whipped... Mt. 27:26
Isa. 53:6a...He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind...Gal. 1:4
Isa. 53:6b...God’s will that He bear sin for all mankind... 1 Jn. 4:10
Isa. 53:7a...Oppressed and afflicted... Mt. 27:27-31
Isa. 53:7b...Silent before his accusers... Mt. 27:12-14
Isa. 53:7c...Sacrificial lamb... Jn. 1:29
Isa. 53:8a...Confined and persecuted... Mt. 26:47-27:31
Isa. 53:8b...He would be judged... Jn. 18:13-22
Isa. 53:8c...Killed.... Mt. 27:35
Isa. 53:8d...Dies for the sins of the world... 1 Jn. 2:2
Isa. 53:9a...Buried in a rich man’s grave... Mt. 27:57
Isa. 53:9b...Innocent and had done no violence... Mk. 15:3
Isa. 53:9c...No deceit in his mouth... Jn. 18:38
Isa. 53:10a...God’s will that He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11
Isa. 53:10b...An offering for sin... Mt. 20:28
Isa. 53:10c...Resurrected and live forever.... Mk. 16:16
Isa. 53:10d...He would prosper... Jn. 17:1-5
Isa. 53:11a...God fully satisfied with His suffering... Jn. 12:27
Isa. 53:11b...God’s servant... Rom. 5:18-19
Isa. 53:11c...He would justify man before God... Rom. 5:8-9
Isa. 53:11d...The sin-bearer for all mankind... Heb. 9:28
Isa. 53:12a...Exalted by God because of his sacrifice... Mt. 28:18
Isa. 53:12b...He would give up his life to save mankind... Lu. 23:46
Isa. 53:12c...Grouped with criminals... Lu. 23:32
Isa. 53:12d...Sin-bearer for all mankind... 2 Cor. 5:21
Isa. 53:12e...Intercede to God in behalf of mankind... Lu. 23:34
Isa. 55:3...Resurrected by God... Acts 13:34
Isa. 55:4...A witness... Jn. 18:37
Isa. 59:15-16a...He would come to provide salvation... Jn. 6:40
Isa. 59:15-16b...Intercessor between man and God... Mt. 10:32
Isa. 59:20...He would come to Zion as their Redeemer... Lu. 2:38
Isa. 61:1-2a...The Spirit of God upon him... Mt. 3:16-17
Isa. 61:1-2b...The Messiah would preach the good news... Lu. 4:17-21
Isa. 61:1-2c...Provide freedom from the bondage of sin and death... Jn. 8:31-32
Isa. 61:1-2...Proclaim a period of grace... Jn. 5:24
Jer.23:5-6a...Descendant of David...Lu. 3:23-31
Jer. 23:5-6b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 13:13
Jer. 23:5-6c...The Messiah would be both God and Man... 1 Tim. 3:16
Jer. 31:22...Born of a virgin... Mt. 1:18-20
Jer. 31:31...The Messiah would be the new covenant... Mt. 26:28
Jer. 33:14-15...Descendant of David... Lu. 3:23-31
Eze.17:22-24...Descendant of David... Lk. 3:23-31
Eze.34:23-24...Descendant of David... Mt. 1:1
Dan. 7:13-14a...He would ascend into heaven... Acts 1:9-11
Dan. 7:13-14b...Highly exalted... Eph. 1:20-22
Dan. 7:13-14c...His dominion would be everlasting... Lu. 1:31-33
Dan. 9:24a...To make an end to sins... Gal. 1:3-5
Dan. 9:24b...He would be holy... Lu. 1:35
Dan. 9:25...Announced to his people 483 years, to the exact day, after the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem... Jn. 12:12-13
Dan. 9:26a...Killed... Mt. 27:35
Dan. 9:26b...Die for the sins of the world... Heb. 2:9
Dan. 9:26c...Killed before the destruction of the temple... Mt. 27:50-51
Dan. 10:5-6...Messiah in a glorified state... Rev. 1:13-16
Hos. 13:14...He would defeat death... 1 Cor. 15:55-57
Joel 2:32...Offer salvation to all mankind... Rom. 10:12-13
Mic. 5:2a...Born in Bethlehem... Mt. 2:1-2
Mic. 5:2b...God’s servant... Jn. 15:10
Mic. 5:2c...From everlasting... Jn. 8:58
Hag. 2:6-9...He would visit the second Temple... Lu. 2:27-32
Hag. 2:23...Descendant of Zerubbabel... Lu. 3:23-27
Zech. 3:8...God’s servant... Jn. 17:4
Zech. 6:12-13...Priest and King... Heb. 8:1
Zech. 9:9a...Greeted with rejoicing in Jerusalem... Mt. 21:8-10
Zech. 9:9b...Beheld as King... Jn. 12:12-13
Zech. 9:9c...The Messiah would be just... Jn. 5:30
Zech. 9:9d...The Messiah would bring salvation... Luke 19:10
Zech. 9:9e...The Messiah would be humble... Mt. 11:29
Zech. 9:9f...Presented to Jerusalem riding on a donkey... Mt. 21:6-9
Zech. 10:4...The cornerstone... Eph. 2:20
Zech. 11:4-6a...At His coming, Israel to have unfit leaders... Mt. 23:1-4
Zech. 11:4-6b...Rejection causes God to remove His protection.. Lu. 19:41-44
Zech. 11:4-6c...Rejected in favor of another king... Jn. 19:13-15
Zech. 11:7...Ministry to “poor,” the believing remnant... Mt. 9:35-36
Zech. 11:8a...Unbelief forces Messiah to reject them... Mt. 23:33
Zech. 11:8b...Despised... Mt. 27:20
Zech. 11:9...Stops ministering to the those who rejected Him... Mt. 13:10-11
Zech. 11:10-11a...Rejection causes God to remove protection... Lu. 19:41-44
Zech. 11:10-11b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 14:7
Zech. 11:12-13a...Betrayed for thirty pieces of silver... Mt. 26:14-15
Zech. 11:12-13b...Rejected... Mt. 26:14-15
Zech. 11:12-13c...Thirty pieces of silver thrown into the house of the Lord... Mt. 27:3-5
Zech. 11:12-13d...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 12:45
Zech. 12:10a...The Messiah’s body would be pierced... Jn. 19:34-37
Zech. 12:10b...The Messiah would be both God and man... Jn. 10:30
Zech. 12:10c...The Messiah would be rejected... Jn. 1:11
Zech. 13:7a...God’s will He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11
Zech. 13:7b...A violent death... Mt. 27:35
Zech. 13:7c...Both God and man.. Jn. 14:9
Zech. 13:7d...Israel scattered as a result of rejecting Him... Mt. 26:31-56
Mal. 3:1a...Messenger to prepare the way for Messiah... Mt. 11:10
Mal. 3:1b...Sudden appearance at the temple... Mk. 11:15-16
Mal. 3:1c...Messenger of the new covenant... Lu. 4:43
Mal. 4:5...Forerunner in the spirit of Elijah... Mt. 3:1-2
Mal. 4:6...Forerunner would turn many to righteousness... Lu. 1:16-17
“We find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 prophecies to be 1 in 10 to the 157th power.”
Wow, this guy is slow. There hasn’t been a Messiah yet, so the chance of someone fulfilling biblical prophesy is zero.
Furthermore, by stating the chances as that low, it further proves how special the Messiah will be.
Additionally, that’s also a good argument against Jesus. For with the New Testament criteria for the Messiah, anybody could do it. IE - not do much of anything and die. And as how special the Messiah must be, Jesus gets disqualified.
—
BTW:
Psst! Dontcha know that I’m the Messiah. You see, I promise to not fulfill any prophecy right now, but after I die I’ll come back and do it... someday.
Believe me!
In Is 1:26....How do you interpret ‘Judges’ to mean the San’hedrin? Perhaps you should cross reference this verse with another that is closely related...here...I'll do it for you:
Is 1:26
“Then I will restore your judges as at the first,
And your counselors as at the beginning;
After that you will be called the city of righteousness,
A faithful city.”
Is 60:17
“Instead of bronze I will bring gold,
And instead of iron I will bring silver,
And instead of wood, bronze,
And instead of stones, iron.
And I will make peace your administrators
And righteousness your overseers.
I would have thought that the part about a city of righteousness and a faithful city would have been enough for most people to recognize the meaning here is something a little deeper than a organization of men as ‘judges’ For just because a judge is restored...or an army of judges, does not a faithful city make. If your intellectually honest you must admit that the Lord here is talking about change within people's hearts....to make them “as at first”...in other words, before the Fall, if you even believe in the Fall...
“Psst! Dontcha know that I’m the Messiah. You see, I promise to not fulfill any prophecy right now, but after I die I’ll come back and do it... someday.
Believe me!”
That’s all you got?? I give you a list of 324 and you come up with that? He was born in Bethlehem. Came out of Egypt. Was sold for thirty pieces of silver. And satisfied HUNDREDS of other Old Testament prophesies....beaten for our transgretions....
And you elevate yourself to His level without fullfilling a SINGLE one?! Christ Vs gogogodzilla: 324 to 0. And you try to make the argument that your just as worthy as Jesus to have people follow you....
Silly, silly.
I'm sad for you. I'm out of time for you. You can't even compete no more. And now you can't even say no one looked at your list...cuz with the very first one you stumble :(
Bye-Bye
What do these biblical quotes have to do with what the messiah must do to be considered the messiah?
Gen. 3:15.....He will bruise Satan’s head
...but Genesis 3:15 states:
“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers. They shall strike at your head, and you shall strike at their heel.”
G-d was speaking to the serpent regarding the eating of the apple. So what exactly is the messiah supposed to do here?
...
You post:
Gen. 5:24....The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated
Yet Genesis 5:24 states:
“Enoch walked with G-d; then he was no more, for G-d took him.”
Wow, Enoch died. Must be the Messiah, yes...
...
You post:
Gen. 9:26,27...The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem
Yet Genesis 9:26-27 states:
“And he said, ‘Blessed be the Lord, the G-d of Shem; Let Canaan be a slave to them. May G-d enlarge Japeth, and let him dwell in the tents of Shem; and let Canaan be a slave to them.”
Again, WTF? How can you blatantly make up this stuff?
...
You post:
Gen. 12:3...As Abraham’s seed,will bless all nations
Yet Genesis 12:3 states:
“I will bless those who bless you and curse him that curses you; And all the families of the earth shall bless themselves by you.”
Which was only part of the full quote of:
“The Lord said to Abram, ‘Go forth from your native land and from your father's house to the land that I will show you. I will make of you a great nation, And I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you and curse him that curses you; And all the families of the earth shall bless themselves by you.”
So, clearly, this was a conversion between G-d and Abram as to what G-d would do for Abram if he left his native land and followed G-d. It's establishing how the people of Israel came to be. So what is the messiah supposed to do? Go forth and become a great nation? That's what Abraham did. Is Abraham your Messiah?
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You post:
Gen. 12:7...The Promise made to Abraham’s Seed
Yet Genesis 12:7 states:
“The Lord appeared to Abram and said, ‘I will assign this land to your heirs.’ And he built an altar there to the Lord who had appeared to him.
Okay, you FINALLY get one accurate. Well... accurate about G-d’s promise to give the land to Abraham and his heirs. As to what the heck the messiah is supposed to do according to this... umm, build an altar? Yes, that's it! Building altars makes you a messiah! Wait, wait, Abraham built the altar. You're making a strange case for Abraham to be the messiah.
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You post:
Gen. 14:18...A priest after Melchizedek
Gen. 14:18........A King also........
Gen. 14:18...The Last Supper foreshadowed
Yet Genesis 14:18 states:
“And King Melchizedek of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was a priest of G-d Most High.”
Again, while technically accurate, there is nothing of value here regarding messianic prophesy. I mean, really... oooh, look, a king brought out bread and wine! Aaaargh! It's the end days!!! Run for your lives!!!
And for the ‘last supper’ foreshadowed. Wow, that's pulling cr@p out of one's @ss. Or is EVERY reference in the Old Testament to food and drink going to be a ‘reference to the last supper’?
Furthermore, what is the messiah supposed to do, now, from this passage? Bring out bread and wine? The King did that. Wow, now you're pushing for two messiahs, neither of which are Jesus.
...
You post:
Gen. 17:19.......The Seed of Isaac
Genesis 17:19 states:
“G-d said, ‘Nevertheless, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall name him Isaac.”
How is this about Isaac's seed??? If anything, it's the seed of Abraham - that being Isaac. So what's the messiah supposed to do in this passage? Bear a son? Sarah's now the messiah?!?
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You post:
Gen. 22:8...The Lamb of God promised
Yet Genesis 22:8 states:
“And Abraham said, ‘G-d will see to the sheep for His burnt offering, my son.’ And the two of them walked on together.”
Now, if your stating that G-d asked Abraham to sacrifice his firstborn son as a test... then yes, Isaac was the test. Note that, *ISAAC* was the test. As for what the Messiah’s supposed to do... umm, try and sacrifice his son to G-d as a test of faith? Well, count Jesus out, he did have any sons!
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You post:
Gen. 22:18...As Isaac’s seed, will bless all nations
Genesis 22:18 states:
“All the nations of the earth shall bless themselves by your descendants, because you have obeyed My command.”
Again, this isn't Isaac's seed. This is G-d speaking to Abraham about his devotion to G-d as proven by his willingness to sacrifice Isaac. As Abraham was the found of the Jewish religion, that would mean that this is referencing who those nations that are good to the Jewish people are blessed. And the opposite also holds.
As to what the messiah is supposed to do... umm, obey G-d’s commands to sacrifice one's son as a test of faith? Again, Jesus fails - no son to sacrifice.
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You post:
Gen.26:2-5..The Seed of Isaac promised as the Redeemer
Genesis 26:2-5 states:
“The Lord had appeared to him and said, “Do not go down to Egypt; stay in the land which I point out to you. Reside in this land, and I will be with you and bless you; I will assign all these lands to you and to your heirs, fulfilling the oath that I swore to your father Abraham. I will make your heirs as numerous as the stars of heaven, and assign to your heir - inasmuch as Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge: My commandments, My laws, and My teachings.”
Now, this is a quote from G-d to Isaac. G-d promises to Isaac to bless his descendants and fulfill the covenant between G-d and Abraham. Also, to make the the future nation of Israel as ‘numerous as the stars of heaven’.
As for what the messiah is supposed to do... it really doesn't say anything about what the messiah must do. Well, unless the messiah is Isaac. Then it clearly states what the messiah (Isaac) must do.
Now, I've gone through the first twelve of your ‘messianic prophesies’ that are supposed to prove that Jesus was the Old Testament's Messiah. Yet, not a one. NOT A ONE has anything to do with it.
And much of them don't even correlate with your assertions in the first place.
All I can conclude is that the authors of the New Testament were complete morons that had no clue as to what was written in the Old Testament... and where desperately trying to find anything to shore up their ludicrous claims.
Thanks for illustrating this, you've done wonders in showing me the shear ridiculousness of the New Testament. I used to think it was better written and thought out than I do now.
Thanks.
Sanhedrin (according to Wikipedia):
A Sanhedrin (Hebrew: סנהדרין; Greek: συνέδριον,[1] synedrion, "sitting together," hence "assembly" or "council") is an assembly of twenty-three judges mandated by Jewish law to be created in every city.
The Great Sanhedrin was an assembly of Jewish judges who constituted the supreme court and legislative body of ancient Israel.
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And you ask mean how I interprete 'judges' to mean Sanhedrin?!?
It should be - how you can find that the restoration of a council of judges is not in line with restoring the counselors and judges...
Really, now.
AMEN! AMEN!
Excellent Messianic Prophetic Scriptures.
Of course, without any way to deal with them, the responses are likely to be assault, rationalization, side-stepping etc.
No way they can honestly deal with such Scriptures honestly and fair-mindedly without accepting Christ . . . which they are typically unwilling to do.
Thanks.
Personally, when folks seem to be willfully blind . . .
“silly” is not the first word that comes to mind.
“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers. They shall strike at your head, and you shall strike at their heel.â€
You’re being more dense and superficial than I gave you credit for. God was telling Satan what to expect from His Son and the woman from whom He was born. Satan tried to derail Christ’s ministry...heel strike. Christ was victorious and conquered death....the death that resulted from original sin. That was the head crush. This really is basic stuff. And your not seriously trying to find truth....btw...you did go over Is 60:17, right. Doesn’t do anything for you? Oh well.
oops... sorry Quix. I meant that last post for gogo.
Yep. Not much you can do with 2nd grade logic and the inability to think in abstract terms. thanks for the posts!
No sweat.
Thanks for all your efforts.
Why you persist is seeing using backwards logic to justify your beliefs is disturbing, to say the least.
You really ought to be concentrating on finding out how Jesus fulfilled biblical prophecy regarding the messiah. Not looking at the words written by the Council of Nicaea 300 years after Jesus's death (at the behest of the Roman emperor, no less).
By believing in the words of men, and then cherry-picking phrases (not even complete sentences, no less) out of the context in which they were written from the Old Testament - you are simply twisting the words to suit your needs.
And by doing that, you open the floodgates for anyone to do so. As such, you really are no better than the author of the 'Da Vinci Code'.
As for G-d and the serpent, G-d is telling the serpent that there will now be enmity between the children of Adam and the serpent. The Bible also tells us why... all you need to do is read a few paragraphs prior and afterwards to know this. And none of the text ever touchs on messianic prophecy or Jesus.
So to claim it is would be a lie.
you poor thing.....you don’t even know when the books of the NT were authored! :(
btt
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