Posted on 04/09/2008 12:36:13 PM PDT by annalex
If Mary was Immaculate why go through the purification process at all? It is TRADITION, well how convenient for the Marion crowd. “The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more...” Romans 5:20
Is John the Baptist greater than Mary? Jesus says “I tell you the truth; Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he”. Matthew 11:11 Since Jesus says John is greater was he assumed by Him as well? John also must have been sinless if he was greater than Mary. Why not? The Word say what it says and all the speculation won't change it.
The speculation that God needed (Like He needs to follow human ways anyway) an "Immaculate" veessel is nowhere to be found. Virgin yes, but needed a perfect body well it's up in the air and considering God does what He pleases anything was possible. Considering all this I am still looking for all those * for Mary when scripture details ALL mankind has sinned.
Scripture does not seem to jive with a sinless Immaculate Mary. If Mary was without sin Scripture would have been clear, now we venture into speculation.
As for relics it's hard to gage what is real or not. Proof that all these relics from a very turbulent times are real? The fact that nothing was written or passed down until centuries later lead me to believe the assumption is just that, an assumption.
No disrespect to you or Mary but this topic is very insignificant in Christian philosophy/teachings. To declare dogma after 1900 years over this kicked me out of the Church and sent me "to hell" in Catholic speak and frankly it is absurd. After all the Headmaster even said so Himself.
“As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you. He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” Luke 11:27,28
God Bless
Oh I was not trying to jangle your perspective. But to show why Catholics believe as they believe.
Thanks.
I think I’ve had a pretty good understanding of that for several decades . . .
But I found this paragraph of yours particularly candid and refreshing:
They can I will concede also be debunked under the same criteria. This is where the Catholic teaching on authority comes in. We believe when there is a question about teachings of faith. And different conclusions can be met by those who read and appeal to Scripture on the matter. The Church has the final authority to say which conclusion is the right one
Of course, Prottys understandably are convinced that’s a false security that offers no security at all.
1 Cor 12-14 speaks of the members of the body of Christ and the diverse gifts of the Spirit they receive so long as they are in Catholic communion, i.e. form a single body. Further, the question wa snot every gift but that of the interpretation of the Scripture, not even given to everyone who is Catholic.
Some of these are false apparitions, but why is any of that a problem?
The assumption is not a natural conclusion. If it was why did it take 1900 years to reach “consensus”?
Also several writings claimed Mary was buried in Ephesus, some in Jerusalem. The assumption story came about centuries later starting with the Orthodox in the east then spreading west, all speculation at best.
So Dogma after 1900 years, please, this doctrine is not detrimental to the Christian faith but some Pope and Bishop say so again, after 1900 years? Give me a break. My soul rest in the belief of Christ, not idle speculation which nowhere did the New Testament go into.
God Bless.
To not cause scandal.
John also must have been sinless if he was greater than Mary. Why not?
Why not indeed? The Church does not discourage the belief that John the Baptist was without sin also.
I am still looking for all those * for Mary
in my previous post to you I explained why "all" in Romans 3 is a literary device of generalization.
Proof that all these relics from a very turbulent times are real?
It is possible that some are not real, but the point is, no relic of Mary was even claimed.
sent me "to hell" in Catholic speak
If you disbelieve a Catholic dogma you shouldnot be Catholic, but if you make an honest effort to understand the dogmas you fond difficult and desire to come home to the Catholic Church, that desire, if sincere may save you. However, I urge you to hurry with your cogitations because we do not live for very long.
Luke 11:27,28
Yes, this shows that all who obey the Gospel should be considered saints and venerated. This does not contradict that Mary should be venerated among other saints.
Went to Catholic school for twelve years, read the different Catechisms throughout the years, I know all the excuses.
Also Roman 3 is not the only scripture, all throughout the Bible the story is the same, all mankind is without sin. Not one single * for Mary and now John the Baptist, who I assume was assumed into heaven.
Let the Word reiterate again “As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Where does the Pope get off “proclaiming” “It is forbidden to any man to change this, our declaration, pronouncement, and definition or, by rash attempt, to oppose and counter it. If any man should presume to make such an attempt, let him know that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul”.
Sorry I will take Jesus’s word over some human who called himself Pius XII.
No * to be had on the implications of the Roman Catholic Church.
Please continue to venerate but don't expect those that take Luke 11: 27,28 to heart to buy the dogma your “Vicar of Christ” laid down 1900 years after the so called fact. I don't think the soul rest on the assumption which led me to be “kicked out”. I have no problem with assuming the assumption but when some man says my eternal soul “will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul” but is contrary to God's Word, I get rather aggressive at the of religious arrogance of it all.
God bless.
“I offer no explanation, whacky or otherwise. I merely say there is more going on than people admit. They are merely huge undeniable question marks.”
I’m not saying UFO’s don’t exist. My own father saw one up close and personal along with other officials and pilots during a test of a jet in the early 50’s or late 40’s. I never asked the timeline and he is gone now. He just described the incident and he, certainly of anyone during and after WWII, was capable of judging what he saw.
The thing came down vertically, ran horizontally down the runway, and went vertical in seconds.
My objection is the creation of this mythology of UFO’s as some demonology comparable to the succubus/incubus. That is what it has become. To tie it all up as the End of the World in Scripture According to ME is just false.
Conspiracy theorists are just all over the place (and the net) with this junk.
“Really! Who’s that hanging on the Cross?”
Oh. Well. You’re right. We really screwed up God’s plans there boy. Wow. He was surely under our thumb. My mistake. /s
You don’t understand the scripture you are quoting, and ignore my help.
I agree, chuckles. This was an excellent answer. People have a tendency to separate the trinity but they were all together in their different roles throughout all of scripture. Amazing God. Amazing Grace that covers all our sins and iniquities. We sure don’t deserve it, we SAINTS OF GOD. M
‘round here we have quite a few...lol.
Nope. It’s only a small part of it. I don’t mean it to be animosity. I feel it’s more of truth that folks just don’t want to see. You’re too mired in your traditions to see beyond it, Petronski. I wish we could all be more open minded about what we believe, just in case we ARE in error, but that rarely happens. I don’t want animosity between us.
Nope. It’s only a small part of it. I don’t mean it to be animosity. I feel it’s more of truth that folks just don’t want to see. You’re too mired in your traditions to see beyond it, Petronski. I wish we could all be more open minded about what we believe, just in case we ARE in error, but that rarely happens. I don’t want animosity between us.
Just did.
Mary occupies zero space in our worship because we do not worship her.
I never experienced it from the other side until I came to FR either. It’s been a real eye opener to learn the differences between what we believe. I never felt animosity from Catholics until just recently here on FR. When we write things, they may come out a lot harsher than we intend. Face to face is always better.
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