second part.
THE TRUE UNRUBBERIZED HISTORY OF THE ROMAN EDIFICE MAKES THAT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. Personally, I think that is by God’s design… IF ORGANIZATIONS PLUS GOD whether God in Holy Spirit to leaders or God via Holy Spirit collectively . . . regardless—it would have been sufficient in Moses’ time—no rebellion—but there was. Even Aaron helped with the golden calf.
Again I must say I do not think the Charism was granted to any one group during OT times because this is a Charism reserved for the Church. It was I forgot to say certainly granted to the authors of the books of the OT when they wrote those books. It may also do with Law vs Grace but I have not examined that issue closely enough to reach a conclusion
After Pentecost—the same—and in SPIRIT FILLED CONGREGATIONS as with the Corinthians. I think God makes thereby a vivid object lesson point for all Creation . . . ONLY DAILY DIALOGUE; DAILY TAKING THE FLESH TO THE CROSS; DAILY SURRENDER; DAILY ABANDONMENT; DAILY CONFESSION AND REPENTANCE; DAILY FEEDING ON THE WORD; DAILY WORSHIP; DAILY SUBMISSION TO GOD’S HIGHEST AND GOD’S COMMUNICATIONS TO US—KEEP ANY INIDIVIDUAL AND ANY GROUP OUT OF ERROR. NARROW IS THE WAY.
I really have no disagreement with what you say above. The problem is what do you do when from their examination of Scripture a person comes to a conclusion that Protestant, Orthodox and Catholic churches would all define as heresy? What makes heresy so dangerous is not that it is extra biblical but that heretics can always find chapter and verse which on superficial reading supports their heresy. An example would be those who do not believe Jesus is God. They believe this because they are convinced the Bible teaches this.
I think there’s ABUNDANT though not screamingly glaring evidence in the New Testament that God had a dim view of organized political structured formal groups to get anything right. AS PAUL MAKES CLEAR IN CORINTHIANS—THE HOLY SPIRIT IS EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE IN CHARGE OF EACH AND EVERY MEETING. Boy has that been left in the dust by virtually all congregations of every partiuclar Christian club brand.
I think God has a dim view of us being able to save ourselves. Which is why I emphasize it is Catholic teaching that the Church is protected from teaching error in matters of faith in morals ONLY because of the promise of Christ and the protection of the Holy Spirit. Not because of the merit of any man. And sinners are found in all Churches. But thankfully so can God’s grace.
3rd part
You may believe the Holy Spirit abandoned the Church, we do not. OF COURSE I DON’T BELIEVE HOLY SPIRIT ABANDONED THE CHURCH! SHEESH. What a false assertion.
My apologies. This usually comes from non creedal Protestants. Those who think no Church – Catholic or Protestant is an instrument of Grace and who reject the idea of any Church having authority over its members. Corporate worship is inferior to that of the individual. Indeed corporate worship is often seen as a barrier to one’s relationship with Jesus Christ. These guys engage in a lot of Church shopping.
NEITHER do we believe that Holy Spirit turned the church leadership or congregations into mindless slave robots doing 100% only His bidding at any particular level.
Nor do we and if I gave that impression I must take better care in my writing. I believe in free will. But it is my hope that I will by the grace of God put my will totally under the Will of God. If that is slavery I rejoice in the chance to feel its yoke.
This is why we differ so greatly in so many of our beliefs. Many Protestants believe there is no visible Church. BALDERDASH. We believe the visible church is not synonymous with, equal only to THE RC EDIFICE!!!
Again I was thinking more in terms of non Creedal Protestants who reject both the majority of Protestant denominations and Catholic and Orthodox churches. I should have made that clearer.
That each believer is given the Charism to be protected against the error of heresy. I don’t know any Protty that believes that. I’ve heard of some that do but I don’t know any personally. Y’all don’t like Prottys telling you what you believe—yet here you feel quite comfortable telling us what we believe. That old RC EDIFICE DOUBLE STANDARD STRIKES AGAIN! Disgustingly so.
Again the problem arises because there are so many different Protestant denominations. Obviously those Protestant denominations which have articles of faith or confessions of faith and who have ecclesiastical authorities who determine if heresy is being taught do not believe this. But again I do hear the argument “it is what I believe the Bible says so that must be what it means” I am sure you have met your share of these believers.
REPLY to lastchance;
second part.
THE TRUE UNRUBBERIZED HISTORY OF THE ROMAN EDIFICE MAKES THAT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. Personally, I think that is by God’s design… IF ORGANIZATIONS PLUS GOD whether God in Holy Spirit to leaders or God via Holy Spirit collectively . . . regardless—it would have been sufficient in Moses’ time—no rebellion—but there was. Even Aaron helped with the golden calf.
Again I must say I do not think the Charism was granted to any one group during OT times because this is a Charism reserved for the Church. It was I forgot to say certainly granted to the authors of the books of the OT when they wrote those books. It may also do with Law vs Grace but I have not examined that issue closely enough to reach a conclusion
Certainly The Church era is a new Dispensation/era with new contingencies and spiritual facts. The fulcrum of all Creation and all History (as well as all Truth) was The Cross/Resurrection. I think folks will be wise to keep that firmly in mind out of their RELATIONSHIP with Christ when folks and forces spread abroad the deceptive disinformation to the contrary—clearly on the horizon.
After Pentecost—the same—and in SPIRIT FILLED CONGREGATIONS as with the Corinthians. I think God makes thereby a vivid object lesson point for all Creation . . . ONLY DAILY DIALOGUE; DAILY TAKING THE FLESH TO THE CROSS; DAILY SURRENDER; DAILY ABANDONMENT; DAILY CONFESSION AND REPENTANCE; DAILY FEEDING ON THE WORD; DAILY WORSHIP; DAILY SUBMISSION TO GOD’S HIGHEST AND GOD’S COMMUNICATIONS TO US—KEEP ANY INIDIVIDUAL AND ANY GROUP OUT OF ERROR. NARROW IS THE WAY.
I really have no disagreement with what you say above. The problem is what do you do when from their examination of Scripture a person comes to a conclusion that Protestant, Orthodox and Catholic churches would all define as heresy? What makes heresy so dangerous is not that it is extra biblical but that heretics can always find chapter and verse which on superficial reading supports their heresy. An example would be those who do not believe Jesus is God. They believe this because they are convinced the Bible teaches this.
1. From where so many Prottys observe, the FACTS OF HISTORY demonstrate that the RC edifice did NOT, HAS NOT, CANNOT succeed to demonstrate your premise. If anything, the RC edifice HAS BEEN AND REMAINS AS FULL, AS RIFE WITH HERESY as any Protty club or congregation . . . some would say as any LDS or JW club or congregation. Whatever is contended to have worked for the RC edifice to keep it from heresy—HAS OBVIOUSLY AND REPEATEDLY THROUGH THE CENTURIES SIMPLY NOT WORKED. IT’S A FLAMING OUTRAGEOUS MYTH that it has.
And, it’s a bit of a sad myth—a horribly sad myth, at that. It’s kind of like the alcoholic who’s arrested for his 9th DUI insisting sloberingly, falling-down-drunkenly that he’s 100% sober. It’s embarrassingly and overtly obviously outrageously UNTRUE.
It’s not only been untrue through the centuries with outrageous heresies and bloody actions on the part of Popes and specific eras of RC magicstericals. AND SUCH IS PERSISTENTLY GLIBLY SLID BY/IGNORED by the RC reps hereon. Or, it’s cheekily rationalized in some shallow, bankrupt way. The myth that the RC edifice is currently free of heresy IS BRAZENLY UNTRUE.
Yet additional UNBIBLICAL, IDOLATROUS, BLASPHEMOUS Marion dogma is waiting in the wings to be more formally installed as forced “[UN]truth” for the ‘faithful’ to be obligated to believe. That is sooooo screamingly outrageous to Prottys. It’s the sort of thing that OT prophets would have rent their clothes and sat in sackcloth and ashes over!
I think there’s ABUNDANT though not screamingly glaring evidence in the New Testament that God had a dim view of organized political structured formal groups to get anything right. AS PAUL MAKES CLEAR IN CORINTHIANS—THE HOLY SPIRIT IS EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE IN CHARGE OF EACH AND EVERY MEETING. Boy has that been left in the dust by virtually all congregations of every particuclar Christian club brand.
I think God has a dim view of us being able to save ourselves. Which is why I emphasize it is Catholic teaching that the Church is protected from teaching error in matters of faith in morals ONLY because of the promise of Christ and the protection of the Holy Spirit. Not because of the merit of any man. And sinners are found in all Churches. But thankfully so can God’s grace.
I find NO such purported promise of Christ as taught by the RC’s. None.
Regardless, even IF there were such a promise, the RC edifice demonstrates ABUNDANTLY that something went amiss in the arrangement virtually from the beginning in AD400. If anything, it has appeared from an UNrubberized historical perspective that the RC edifice has been MORE FULL of heresy than it has been without it. Sorry to have to say that, Bro, but it’s the truest thing I can say on the evidence.
Blessings,
REPLY to lastchance;
second part.
THE TRUE UNRUBBERIZED HISTORY OF THE ROMAN EDIFICE MAKES THAT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. Personally, I think that is by God’s design… IF ORGANIZATIONS PLUS GOD whether God in Holy Spirit to leaders or God via Holy Spirit collectively . . . regardless—it would have been sufficient in Moses’ time—no rebellion—but there was. Even Aaron helped with the golden calf.
Again I must say I do not think the Charism was granted to any one group during OT times because this is a Charism reserved for the Church. It was I forgot to say certainly granted to the authors of the books of the OT when they wrote those books. It may also do with Law vs Grace but I have not examined that issue closely enough to reach a conclusion
Certainly The Church era is a new Dispensation/era with new contingencies and spiritual facts. The fulcrum of all Creation and all History (as well as all Truth) was The Cross/Resurrection. I think folks will be wise to keep that firmly in mind out of their RELATIONSHIP with Christ when folks and forces spread abroad the deceptive disinformation to the contrary—clearly on the horizon.
After Pentecost—the same—and in SPIRIT FILLED CONGREGATIONS as with the Corinthians. I think God makes thereby a vivid object lesson point for all Creation . . . ONLY DAILY DIALOGUE; DAILY TAKING THE FLESH TO THE CROSS; DAILY SURRENDER; DAILY ABANDONMENT; DAILY CONFESSION AND REPENTANCE; DAILY FEEDING ON THE WORD; DAILY WORSHIP; DAILY SUBMISSION TO GOD’S HIGHEST AND GOD’S COMMUNICATIONS TO US—KEEP ANY INIDIVIDUAL AND ANY GROUP OUT OF ERROR. NARROW IS THE WAY.
I really have no disagreement with what you say above. The problem is what do you do when from their examination of Scripture a person comes to a conclusion that Protestant, Orthodox and Catholic churches would all define as heresy? What makes heresy so dangerous is not that it is extra biblical but that heretics can always find chapter and verse which on superficial reading supports their heresy. An example would be those who do not believe Jesus is God. They believe this because they are convinced the Bible teaches this.
1. From where so many Prottys observe, the FACTS OF HISTORY demonstrate that the RC edifice did NOT, HAS NOT, CANNOT succeed to demonstrate your premise. If anything, the RC edifice HAS BEEN AND REMAINS AS FULL, AS RIFE WITH HERESY as any Protty club or congregation . . . some would say as any LDS or JW club or congregation. Whatever is contended to have worked for the RC edifice to keep it from heresy—HAS OBVIOUSLY AND REPEATEDLY THROUGH THE CENTURIES SIMPLY NOT WORKED. IT’S A FLAMING OUTRAGEOUS MYTH that it has.
And, it’s a bit of a sad myth—a horribly sad myth, at that. It’s kind of like the alcoholic who’s arrested for his 9th DUI insisting sloberingly, falling-down-drunkenly that he’s 100% sober. It’s embarrassingly and overtly obviously outrageously UNTRUE.
It’s not only been untrue through the centuries with outrageous heresies and bloody actions on the part of Popes and specific eras of RC magicstericals. AND SUCH IS PERSISTENTLY GLIBLY SLID BY/IGNORED by the RC reps hereon. Or, it’s cheekily rationalized in some shallow, bankrupt way. The myth that the RC edifice is currently free of heresy IS BRAZENLY UNTRUE.
Yet additional UNBIBLICAL, IDOLATROUS, BLASPHEMOUS Marion dogma is waiting in the wings to be more formally installed as forced “[UN]truth” for the ‘faithful’ to be obligated to believe. That is sooooo screamingly outrageous to Prottys. It’s the sort of thing that OT prophets would have rent their clothes and sat in sackcloth and ashes over!
I think there’s ABUNDANT though not screamingly glaring evidence in the New Testament that God had a dim view of organized political structured formal groups to get anything right. AS PAUL MAKES CLEAR IN CORINTHIANS—THE HOLY SPIRIT IS EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE IN CHARGE OF EACH AND EVERY MEETING. Boy has that been left in the dust by virtually all congregations of every particuclar Christian club brand.
I think God has a dim view of us being able to save ourselves. Which is why I emphasize it is Catholic teaching that the Church is protected from teaching error in matters of faith in morals ONLY because of the promise of Christ and the protection of the Holy Spirit. Not because of the merit of any man. And sinners are found in all Churches. But thankfully so can God’s grace.
I find NO such purported promise of Christ as taught by the RC’s. None.
Regardless, even IF there were such a promise, the RC edifice demonstrates ABUNDANTLY that something went amiss in the arrangement virtually from the beginning in AD400. If anything, it has appeared from an UNrubberized historical perspective that the RC edifice has been MORE FULL of heresy than it has been without it. Sorry to have to say that, Bro, but it’s the truest thing I can say on the evidence.
Blessings,