Posted on 05/03/2008 4:38:34 PM PDT by NYer
There exist certainly more mature faithful writings from Catholic believers than is expressed in this article, IMHO.
All faith comes from God.
Pertinent to the discussion are word studies in the meanings of “Scripture”, “The Word of God”, “Memra”, the second person of the Godhead, “the Son of God”, the “Holy Spirit”, belief and faith (same word in Greek), and a general epistemology based upon what God has revealed to us by His Word through faith in Christ.
No matter how holy the provision of His Word, nor how explicit it is provided, if not perceived through the mechanisms He provides, it will not serve to edify but may result in hardening the heart of the recipient.
If a believer is able to remain in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ, by focusing on what He has provided in Scripture, then that is an outstanding advancement of that believer through faith in Christ.
If a believer is able to remain in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ, by focusing on what He has provided in the Creation, then that is an outstanding advancement of that believer through faith in Christ.
If a believer is able to remain in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ, by focusing on what He has provided in the Church, then that is an outstanding advancement of that believer through faith in Christ.
On the contrary, one can focus on Scripture and/or the Church and/or Creation, independent of faith through Christ and miss the mark. Furthermore, the Word of God is not without effect. When received independently of faith through Christ, it results in a hardening of the heart.
The more mature God has made me, the less I’ve had any confidence in any RELIGIOUS CLUB.
I’ve particularly been wary of any which had any of the following sorts of features and tendencies—which eventually—they all move toward—and the club which construes itself to be as follows is the most screamingly outrageous example of how NOT to DO RELIGION. One would have thought humans would have gotten Christ’s drift from His characterizations of the Jewish bureaucratic hierarchical RELIGIOUS club of His dusty pathed days.
THESE are the features which remind me of Jim Jones:
**The purportedly only truly truest truly true; authentically genuinely real; truly magicsterically verified one [Cross splinter, Mary’s hanky, Pebble Peter’s toenail clipping . . . fantasized fantastically derived dogma . . . ] available
**The only anointed one—usually by dubious fantasized ‘virtue’ of some ‘Godly’ sanction which God didn’t have anything to do with. Jim Jones—the presumed anointed one is a glaring modern example of the RC’s long traditional claims of a similar schtick . . .
**The purportedly only one with some specialized jury- rigged, fantasized or any other kind of monopoly . . .
**The purportedly only one with authentic, genuine real magicsterically produced plastic idols
**The purportedly only one with genuine real plastic indulgences
**The purportedly only one with genuine real rubber ‘bibles’
**The purportedly only one with genuine real rubber dictionaries
**The purportedly only one with genuine real rubber histories
**The purportedly only one with a vast fossilized self aggrandizing, self perpetuating hierarchical clique of political power-mongers fantasized to reach back 400 years beyond their founding to pebble Peter . . .
**The purportedly only one with magnificent magical earth-mother Mary (affirmed periodically by) the Mary characterized ET personage and assorted technological sound and light shows . .
**The purportedly only one with an infallible leadership force-ably wildly acclaimed (under penalty of eternal damnation or early Kool-Aid drinking if the cheers are not loud enough) by all the bureaucracy AND the simple serfs as meriting such an infallible label by the SPECIALIZED VIRTUE of some unique mumbo jumbo or fantasized history
**The purportedly only one with specialized pontifical accoutrements, dress, symbols, rituals and the like emphasizing the hierarchy’s monopolistic death grip on fantasized specialized exclusive RELIGIOUS and LIFE-ITSELF TURF--granted by GOD HIMSELF—though—in fact—God didn’t come near saying any such thing . . .
**Where Dying for the leadership, the bureaucracy, the organization is equated as dying for God. Jim Jones was just following centuries of !!!!TRADITION!!!! on that Score . . . .
** Where Creating NONBiblical hoops for the serfs and their families to jump through AFTER earthly death as a means of collecting more coins
**Where Creating NONBiblical brazenly false fantasies and elaborations based on outrageous interpretations of single words or short phrases—such as ‘full of Grace’ = no more children; her own immaculate fantasy; her own bodily ascension; her own magical hankies . .
I could go on, but I hope that’s clear enough. If any of the above words are not in your Rubber Dictionary, please let me know and I’ll be happy to elaborate.
Such annoyingly pesky facts! LOL.
Yes, the lots, (A method the current twelve used) was a divine revelation to them. Certainly not the way a Pope is chosen now.
While the eleven casted lots Jesus acted on His own and hand picked Saul/Paul. This added even more questions about the “line”.
They all believed them to be authoritative — solely authoritative. They didn’t cite each other or each other’s writings as authoritative — just the scriptures.
Perhaps you all need to reread your own church fathers to see how out of touch you are with them. For as Irenaeus wrote [but you all seem to have forgotten], “in matters of importance, one should defer to the writings of the apostles”.
Just when are you all going to start doing that???
= = = =
Now Uncle Chip . . . you SHOULD KNOW! . . . that the RC edifice and magicsterical are
NOT interested in solid historical, logical true facts.
They are only in the market for rubberized pseudo facts that can be stretched from 400 years prior to their founding to galaxies far away and back.
“(A method the current twelve used)”
Sorry, “current eleven”, Paul was not “there” yet.
Obviously, Holy Spirit was insufficient.
Or perhaps the good 'father' had told Holy Spirit to take a hike?
Or perhaps the head-dress, mitre?, crown?, had too much fur in the regions of his ears?
Or perhaps he thought the fossilizing edifice tickled ears much more charmingly than Holy Spirit's truth speaking?
What an blasphemously insulting travesty upon Holy Spirit's person and Role.
Worship of Mary is absolutely wrong. The real question is, though, who teaches worship of Mary?
That's gibberish. The Catholic Church is THE apostolic church.
LOL
HOGWASH.
UNMITIGATED HOGWASH.
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
The VASTLY greater number of lines of text in behalf of MARY hereon vs in behalf of the Trinity; The vastly greater number of threads posted in support of some variation on the latest Magnificent Magical Earth-Mother Mary hogwash . . .
PROVES that statement to be wholesale delusionary and off the wall wrong.
Ridiculous to the point of absurdity.
MOST PROTTYS [in contrast to Pied Pipered RC's] have the horse sense to recognize it as
. . .
drum roll . . .
We TRY to leave the deluded stuff to the RC's . . . though we cerainly have no perfect record on that score.
The sufficiency of the Holy Spirit is so VERY evident in protestant circles. You can tell by the incredible arguments over “true” interpretations of Holy Scripture...verse by verse..and conceptual arguments such as pre-trib, post-trib and a-trib, Saturday worship versus Sunday worship, celebration of religious holidays (Christmas, Easter). < /sarcasm>
If one were to look at protestantism and say the Holy Spirit guides “them” to Truth, then one would have to conclude that the Spirit is a scatterbrain at best, or ineffective at worst.
I know better. The Holy Spirit leads to Truth and there is only one Truth. Any religious formula that leads to chaos and division is not of the Spirit.
Protestants do do that with the Lord’s supper.
“The sufficiency of the Holy Spirit is so VERY evident in protestant circles. You can tell by the incredible arguments over “true” interpretations of Holy Scripture...verse by verse..and conceptual arguments such as pre-trib, post-trib and a-trib, Saturday worship versus Sunday worship, celebration of religious holidays (Christmas, Easter). < /sarcasm>”
Not to mention demons in spaceships.
Seriously. Being a "Protestant" in the 16th century pretty much always involved a conscious repudiation of groups in communion with the See of Rome.
But plenty of Protestants these days are what they are and they don't care one way or another about Rome. They don't see any reason to think about it much.
Of course I disagree ad think that they don't know what they're missing an so forth. But that's not the issue. The issue is there is no deliberate and considered act of "protest" or separation, no "intention" of jettisoning or apostatizing from anything.
Consequently our evangelism has to adjust.
Besides, while I think Luther was very wrong, there is a certain integrity in his having the guts to stick with his convictions, however misguided they may have been.
IF the average Protestant in the pew were indeed repudiating us, when we laid the charge, we'd get a "Dern tootin' I'm repudiating you!" But what we get about as often (along with astonishing mischaracterizations of what we in fact believe and do) is a kind of surprised and indignant,"No I'm not! You do your stuff and well do ours, and let's try to get along."
That is interesting. I am new and learning and didn’t realize that the Jewish OT was different. What are the differences? Can you recap? I’m sure it is not as easy as it sounds.
You forgot that the Bishop told them “Hokus pokus, Ad Valorem ad hoc.”
That’s all they need to know about it.
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