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Mormonism's Baptism for the Dead (Catholic position)
Catholic answers ^ | unk | NIHIL OBSTAT

Posted on 05/07/2008 7:23:26 AM PDT by Revelation 911

The first step toward being able to go to a Mormon temple is an interview with the "ward bishop" (roughly equivalent to a parish priest). During this interview a Mormon is questioned by the bishop to see if he has been faithful in his commitment to the teachings and ordinances of the Mormon church.

The questions cover a variety of subjects, including his tithing track record; use of alcohol, tobacco, or caffeine; sexual immorality; and any failures to adhere to church doctrines and disciplines. If the applicant has had difficulties in any of these areas, he will not receive a temple recommend. For the one who does not pass the interview, there is no trip to the temple.

It is interesting to note that the majority of Mormons do not have temple recommends. This is not to say that they fail their interviews with their bishops. Actually, for a variety of reasons, most Mormons never make the effort to obtain a temple recommend. But for the minority who do obtain one, their chief duties in the temple include baptism for the dead.

On any given day, in more than fifty Mormon temples around the world, thousands of faithful Mormons are baptized vicariously for the dead. Most non-Mormons are dimly aware that the Mormons are interested in genealogy, but they are not sure why. While there is nothing wrong with being interested in genealogy as a hobby, this is far from a hobby for Mormons.

They believe people who have died can be baptized by proxy, thus allowing them the opportunity to become Mormons after their death. The idea behind baptism for the dead is this: God wants each of us to be with him in glory. To effect this, he allows us to accept the Mormon gospel here on earth. If we do not, he sends us to a "spirit prison" until the Mormon gospel has been preached to us there and we convert.

Mormons believe that their church has missionaries in the "spirit world" who are busy spreading the Mormon gospel to dead people who have not yet received it. Should any of these dead people want to convert to Mormonism, they are required to abide by all its rules, one of which is water baptism. Hence the need for proxies to receive the corporeal waters of baptism.

You might be surprised to learn that the Mormon church has teams of men and women microfilming records of Catholic and Protestant parishes, cemetery records, birth and death certificates—virtually any sort of record pertaining to past generations. Temple Mormons hope, in time, to have all of the dead of previous generations baptized posthumously into the Mormon church.

Baptism for the Dead v. Baptism of Desire

One reason Mormons advance the practice of baptism for the dead is a sense of justice. Billions of people have died without ever hearing the gospel of Christ and without having the chance to be baptized into his Church. How could God consign such people to damnation without giving them the chance to be saved? Surely he would give them that chance. But if they never heard the gospel in this life, when else could they hear and respond to it except in the next life?

There are a number of problems with this line of reasoning. Scripture is very clear in stating that this life is the only chance we get. Once we die, our fate is sealed: "It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27). There are no "second chances" after death. Consequently, God judges individuals based on their actions in this life. Since he is a just judge, he does not hold people accountable for what they did not and could not have known. Thus, those who do not hear the gospel in this life will be judged based on the knowledge they did have in this life. God gives his light to all people (John 1:9), and the universe itself gives evidence of God (Ps. 19:1-4), evidence which is sufficient to establish basic moral accountability (Rom. 1:18-21). For those who are ignorant by no fault of their own, God will not hold their ignorance against them; but it is wrong to assume that people have no light from God unless they hear an oral proclamation of the gospel.

If they live up to the light that has been shown to them and would have embraced Christ and the gospel had they known about them, then they can be saved (Rom. 2:15-16). Neither is their lack of baptism an obstacle. Scripture reveals that sometimes the graces that normally come through baptism are given early, to those who have not yet been baptized (Acts 10:44-48). Such people have what the Church terms "baptism of desire" and are united to God through their desire to do what he wants of them.

In the case of those who have not yet heard the gospel or learned of God, but who nevertheless seek to follow the truth as they understand it, they have an implicit desire for God since they desire to follow the truth. They simply do not know that God is the truth. Consequently, they also can be saved through baptism of desire; therefore, a proxy baptism is superfluous, either before their death or after it. They are already united to God, even if they are not fully aware of it in this life (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church 847-848, 1257-1260).

Thus the Mormon argument from fairness is not persuasive. There are other ways for accounting for God’s justice and mercy in dealing with those who have not heard of God and the gospel. It is not necessary to postulate another preaching of the gospel and second chance of repentance in the afterlife, much less the necessity of proxy baptism for the dead, on that basis. God can simply let whomever he wants into heaven, whether they have water baptism or not. God is not bound by the sacraments he himself instituted (CCC 1257).

The practice of baptism of the dead, then, must stand or fall based on the direct evidence concerning it, and that is where the Mormon position runs into fatal problems.

The Bible Doesn’t Teach It

The doctrine of baptism for the dead was first given to the Mormon church by Joseph Smith in 1836 and is found in his Doctrine and Covenants, (but not, as we’ll see, in the Book of Mormon).

In Paul’s first epistle to the church in Corinth, he treats a number of subjects. This letter was written to counteract problems he saw developing in Corinth after he had established the church there. Corinth had its share of pagan religions, but there were also quasi-Christian groups that practiced variations of orthodox Christian doctrines. Enter baptism for the dead.

Mormons cite a single biblical passage to support baptizing members on behalf of dead persons, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?" (1 Cor. 15:29).

Mormons infer that in 1 Corinthians, Paul speaks approvingly of living Christians receiving baptism on behalf of dead non-Christians; however, the context and construction of the verse indicate otherwise. The Greek phrase rendered by the King James Version as "for the dead" is huper ton nekron. This phrase is as ambiguous in Greek as it is in English. The preposition huper has a wide semantic range and can indicate "for the sake of," "on behalf of," "over," "beyond," or "more than." Like the English preposition "for," it does not have a single meaning and does not require the Mormon idea of being baptized in place of the dead. Such a reading would be unlikely given the more plausible interpretations available, and even if huper were taken to mean "in the place of," it doesn’t mean Paul endorses the practice.

First Corinthians 15 is a key chapter for Paul’s teaching on the resurrection of the body. He makes no statement on baptism for dead persons except to note that some unnamed "they" practice it. While the rest of his teaching in chapter fifteen refers to "we," his Christian followers, "they" are not further identified. Who this group was may not be known with certitude today, but there are some reasonable interpretations:

1. Some commentators assume this verse refers to the practice of giving newly baptized children the names of deceased non-Christian relatives, with the hope that the dead might somehow share in the Lord’s mercy.

2. Another interpretation envisions the baptism of catechumens who have witnessed the persecution and martyrdom of their Christian predecessors. With their belief that the dead do rise, the Christian candidates come forward boldly and accept both the faith and its consequences.

3. A related view holds that the group consists of those baptized in connection with a dead Christian loved one. In the first century, many families were split religiously, as only one or two members may have converted to Christianity. When it came time for these new Christians to die, they no doubt exhorted their non-Christian family members to consider the Christian faith and to embrace it so that they could be together in the next world. After the deaths of their Christian loved ones, many family members no doubt did investigate the Christian faith and were baptized so that they could be reunited with their loved ones in the afterlife. At the time, many pagans had at best an unclear idea of what the afterlife was like, and there were a large number of sects promising immortality to those who were willing to undergo their initiation rituals. A pagan husband mourning the death of his Christian wife might thus have an unclear idea of what her religion was all about, but still have it fixed in his mind: "If I want to be with her again, I need to become a Christian, like she was, so I can go where Christians go in the afterlife." This, then, could prompt him to investigate Christianity, learn its teachings about the afterlife and the resurrection, and embrace faith in Christ, receiving Christian baptism for the sake of being united with his dead loved one. The same is true, by extension, for other family relations as well, such as parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren. Even today deathbed exhortations to live the Christian life are not uncommon. People still resolve to live as Christians in order to please dead loved ones, to honor their memories, and to be united with them in the next life. The difference is that, today, most of those being exhorted have already been baptized.

4. Others advance the possibility that Paul was referring to the practice of a heretical cult that existed in Corinth. On this theory, Paul was not endorsing the practice of the group, but merely citing it to emphasize the importance of the resurrection. Rather, his point was: If even heterodox Christians have a practice that makes no sense if there is no resurrection of the dead, how much more, then, should we orthodox Catholics believe in and hope for the resurrection of the dead.

There is no other evidence in the Bible or in the early Church Fathers’ writings of baptism being practiced on the living in place of the dead. Some Mormon writers assert that some Christian commentators have discussed the possibility of a kind of "baptism for the dead" among some in the Corinthian community in Paul’s time. But these commentators do not suggest that the practice was accepted or mainstream. Given the silence of Scripture and tradition, we conclude rightly when we see this behavior as another aberration within a community of believers already soundly scolded by Paul for its lack of charity, its factionalism, its immorality, its abuse of the Eucharist, and other matters.

Although we have no way of knowing for sure who was engaging in this practice, it is certain that Paul was not referring to orthodox Christians baptizing the dead. Catholic and Protestant scholars agree on that.

A Flat-Out Contradiction

The case against baptism for the dead is also made by the Mormon scriptures themselves. The current Mormon doctrine on baptism for the dead is quite unlike what Joseph Smith first taught. As in other cases, the Book of Mormon becomes an important tool for the Christian apologist. It contradicts much Mormon theology, and baptism for the dead is no exception.

In Alma 34:35-36 we read: "For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he does seal you his. Therefore, the spirit of the Lord has withdrawn from you and hath no place in you; the power of the devil is over you, and this is the final state of the wicked."

In other words, those who die as non-Mormons go to hell, period. There’s no suggestion of a later, vicarious admission into the Mormon church.

We also see present-day Mormon doctrine contradicted in 2 Nephi 9:15: "And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment seat of the Holy One of Israel, and then cometh the judgment and then must they be judged according to the holy judgment of God. For the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy . . . shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end."

It is unforunate that Smith abandoned his own, earlier doctrine. It would not have made the Mormon scriptures any more authentic, but it would have prevented millions of futile Mormon proxy baptisms from being performed.

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: baptism; catholic; lds; mormon
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1 posted on 05/07/2008 7:23:27 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Revelation 911

I wonder if there is any way to find out if the mormons have proxy-baptized dead relatives....


2 posted on 05/07/2008 7:28:33 AM PDT by Malacoda (A day without a pi$$ed-off muslim is like a day without sunshine.)
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To: Malacoda

http://www.familysearch.org/


3 posted on 05/07/2008 7:33:12 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Malacoda
I wonder if there is any way to find out if the mormons have proxy-baptized dead relatives....

I have very close Morman friends and I always tease them that they are going to have to hold their horses and wait until I'm dead to baptize me. I don't care what happens after I'm dead. And I know they will only do it because they love me and want to share eternal life with me. I think it is kinda cute and sweet.

4 posted on 05/07/2008 7:34:37 AM PDT by Zevonismymuse
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To: Zevonismymuse

Yup. Have at it. Just don’t use the septic tank for me.


5 posted on 05/07/2008 7:35:30 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Revelation 911

I am assuming that if one has been baptized a Mormon in life and has later wholly and completely rejected same, nobody will come pestering one after death to reconsider?

I have also been told that if I die unmarried and a Mormon, I will have one more chance to marry — if a man who has already been vetted on Earth chooses me as one of his plural wives from the anteroom where, presumably, all spinsters hug the walls and wait for the Heavenly Phone to ring. That was one of the many reasons I decided to turn back to the Christian idea of heaven and hell, as I had never heard even in Methodist Sunday School that anybody got married after death.


6 posted on 05/07/2008 7:35:39 AM PDT by Appleby
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To: Revelation 911

That was a terrific piece of work. Thanks for posting it.


7 posted on 05/07/2008 7:35:57 AM PDT by Andyman (The truth shall make you freep.)
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To: Revelation 911

What is all the hubbub. Let the cult do what it wants, it has no affect on my salvation nor that of anyone they “baptize” after death. It has no hold on you unless you let it.

I equate it to voodoo, I have had a couple of spells cast on my by pagans ( in my LEO days after arresting them ) and have yet to suffer and blight.


8 posted on 05/07/2008 7:36:08 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative; colorcountry; Elsie; greyfoxx39
I equate it to voodoo

Voodoo Ping

9 posted on 05/07/2008 7:40:52 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, most beautiful place on earth.)
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To: Zevonismymuse
It won't be so cute and sweet when they’re burning in Hell.

There is only one way to Heaven and that is belief on the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a PERSONAL relationship, and no other can do it for you.

10 posted on 05/07/2008 7:42:45 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: NYer

courtesy ping


11 posted on 05/07/2008 7:46:00 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Utah Binger; Resolute Conservative

Hocus Pocus, voodoo, incantations....yeah, that pretty much sums up the Mormon Temple experience.

It is more that weird and secret, it is ‘sacred.’


12 posted on 05/07/2008 7:46:58 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Revelation 911

The whole concept of offering posthumous conversions to people who aren’t around to tell the missionaries to get bent seems rather presumptuous and insulting.


13 posted on 05/07/2008 7:47:08 AM PDT by steve-b (The "intelligent design" hoax is not merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. --John Derbyshire)
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To: Andyman
That was a terrific piece of work

it cuts around the typical disgruntled ex mormon, with an official position

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

14 posted on 05/07/2008 7:47:34 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Revelation 911
FWIW, "Nihil Obstat" is not the name of an author.

Wikipedia has a decent article (with a slight libertarian bias) describing "Nihil Obstat" and "Imprimatur".

15 posted on 05/07/2008 7:48:06 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Revelation 911

The Catholic Church in Italy said to the Mormans, “you want our parish records to do what....!!!?? I don’t think so.” There are only civic records in the LDS database for much of Catholic Europe. As a genealogist, I am glad for the work the Mormans have done. As far as theology goes, uh uh.


16 posted on 05/07/2008 7:51:00 AM PDT by Gaetano
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To: steve-b
The whole concept of offering posthumous conversions to people who aren’t around to tell the missionaries to get bent seems rather presumptuous and insulting.

related article re: Catholic refusal of baptism records to LDS

comment from that article on that website, with similar sentiments

# 21. 5/5/08 7:32 AM WHO OWNS YOUR ANCESTORS? the mormon church presumes to do so by proxy baptism of the dead, with the strange notion that the spirit can accept the baptism and enter heaven

how pompous of you to complain about Catholics, when your church is plainly claiming ownership of my ancestors....but, it's at least consistent with your anti Catholic bigotry.

17 posted on 05/07/2008 7:51:58 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Coldwater Creek
It won't be so cute and sweet when they’re burning in Hell.

Dang, your God sounds pretty cruel. My God is a forgiving God.

18 posted on 05/07/2008 7:53:15 AM PDT by Zevonismymuse
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To: ArrogantBustard

LOL- what a goof I am - thanks for the correction LOL


19 posted on 05/07/2008 7:53:23 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Zevonismymuse
Dang, your God sounds pretty cruel. My God is a forgiving God.

stranger yet, my God's mercy triumphs over judgement

People want a warm fuzzy God without the threat of punishment - if that were the case, satan would be out of business

20 posted on 05/07/2008 7:55:13 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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