Note: RM has declared Contender Ministries to NOT be a hate site.
Yet, she seemed kind of doubtful when told her role, and later seemed surprised when Jesus was hanging out at the temple.
She also acknowledged she was a sinner ....
The New American Bible recommened by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops DOES NOT have the translation error that is common to the older versions translated from the Latin Vulgate. I am not sure if the error was in the Vulgate, or was in the translations from it, but it was an error, not a deliberate attempt to re-write Genesis.
Anyhow, about 30 years ago when I was attending a University in Boston, I had some dialogue exchanges with some Jesuits who were certainly not interested in defending the elevation of Mary in the Catholic Church.
Au Contraire, they were adamant in their opposition to the dogma of Mary worship. Who woulda thunk it?
I figured back then that the Vatican was leaning away from certain traditions. I can't say if that has happened to any great degree but I sense there have been some adjustments.
Wrong. Worship (latria) belongs to God alone, while due reverence (dulia, hyperdulia) is accorded to Saints. And yes, we believe Mary is in Heaven. Since Heaven is not bound by our rules of time or physics, she can hear all our prayers, as the Angels in Heaven heard the Psalmist when he addressed them. She "answers" our prayers only in that she prays to God on our behalf - through no power of her own are they "answered" as we think of it.
Being Catholic, don’t know how many times I been ask about worshiping Mary. I’ve always said “She’s the most important woman in the New Testament and a saint. You may venerate her but that does not means she is deity. Catholics are not required to venerate her and she has nothing to do with personal salvation. Worship her? No, but we show her quite a bit respect.” I think it is proper.
News media reports, eh?
Where is this petition?
True.
This elevates her to a position of deity.
Absolutely false.
Contender Ministries is not a hate site. It is, however, a website filled with hate.
Unless one prays only to one of the divine persons of the Holy Trinity, one is worshiping an idol, in my view. The fact that the person doing the praying "doesn't consider it worship" is irrelevant. God considers it worship, that's all that matters. If it's not directed toward the Father, Son or Holy Spirit then it is worshiping the "creature" and the "created" and that's idolatry.
Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.
“author Tim LaHaye says this”
If I see this in any article it goes into the trash can!
MARIAN INTREP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_LaHaye
Anti-Catholicism
LaHaye has been a harsh critic of Roman Catholicism, which he has called “a false religion.”[9] In his 1973 book Revelation Illustrated and Made Plain, he stated that the Catholic Church “is more dangerous than no religion because she substitutes religion for truth” and “is also dangerous because some of her doctrines are pseudo-Christian.”[3] Elsewhere the same book compared Catholic ceremonies to pagan rituals.[9] It was these statements that were largely responsible for LaHaye’s dismissal from Jack Kemp’s presidential campaign. It was later revealed that the San Diego church that LaHaye had pastored throughout the 1970s had sponsored an anti-Catholic group called Mission to Catholics; one of their pamphlets asserted that Pope Paul VI was the “archpriest of Satan, a deceiver, and an antichrist, who has, like Judas, gone to his own place.”[9]
The issue of anti-Catholicism also comes up in regard to the Left Behind series. The books say that many “who called themselves Catholics” but did not truly believe in Jesus were not raptured, but it does not mention the proportion who were. While the fictional Pope John XXIV was raptured, he is described as having “stirred up controversy in the church with a new doctrine that seemed to coincide more with the ‘heresy’ of Martin Luther than with the historic orthodoxy they were used to,” and this is implied as the reason he was raptured. His successor, Pope Peter II, who espouses what LaHaye and Jenkins regard as traditional Catholic doctrine, becomes Pontifex Maximus of Enigma Babylon One World Faith, an amalgamation of all remaining world faiths and religions.[23] Other Catholic writers have said that while the books aren’t “anti-Catholic per se” they reflect LaHaye’s other writings on the subject.[24]
[edit] Other
He has also been criticized for “pseudo-psychological” temperament theory and mixing in theology.[6] The basic ideas in this theory — that people have temperaments that can be described as sanguine, choleric, melancholic, and phlegmatic — are very old and actually go all the way back to Hippocrates.[25] A common temperament theory is the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI).
LaHaye has also been accused of promoting Theocracy by the organisation TheocracyWatch.[26]
According to Jimmy Akin, LaHaye, though had made clear that he does not endorse Sun Myung Moon’s theological ideas, he was affiliated to the Unification Church. He was the chair of Moon’s Coalition for Religious Freedom, and he and his wife have attended and spoken at Moon-sponsored events[23]
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Martin Luther: “In this work whereby she was made the Mother of God, so many and such good things were given her that no one can grasp them…Not only was Mary the mother of Him who is born in Bethlemem but of Him who, before, the world, was eternally born of the Father, from a Mother in time and at the same time man and God” (Weimer, The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Souis, V7, P572)
Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . “brothers” really means “cousins” here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4, 1537-39)
He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary’s virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. (Ibid.)
God says . . . : “Mary’s Son is My only Son.” Thus Mary is the Mother of God.(Ibid.)
God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary’s Son, and that Mary is God’s mother . . . She is the true mother of God and bearer of God . . . Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus, not two Christs . . . just as your son is not two sons . . . even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone.(On the Councils and the Church, 1539)
John Clavin: “I cannot be denied that God in Choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of His Son, granted her the highest
honor…Elizabeth calls mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God.” (Calvin Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Braunschweig-Berlin, 1863-1900, V. 45 p 348, 35)Ulrich Zwingli: “It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she sould bring forth the Son of God.” (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, in Evang. Luc., Op. comp., V6,1 P. 639
On the whole, a fairly accurate report, surprisingly. I’d take issue with several points.
Most urgently, there are no sane, orthodox Catholics pushing for Mary to be granted status within the trinity. The earliest mention of this I’d ever seen was from Carl Jung, who, ironically, was from the Swiss Reformed Church.
Also, the wierd bit about the Genesis passage: Catholics do acknowledge it is through the seed of the woman that the serpent is defeated.
Lastly, the blessed virgin has not been called co-redemptrix by the Catholic Church. Some elements have pushed for this appellation, which the Vatican has resisted for exactly the reason one would expect if one weren’t anti-Catholic: since all witnesses participate in redemption, and Mary is the embodiment of the Church herself, the appellation is accurate, however, it is potentially misleading in that it seems to elevate her to equal partner with Christ, which she is not.
Instead of setting up a straw-man to knock down, why don’t you try refuting the actual beleif of catholics, not what you say is their beleif?
Or is it that you can not refute what they say they beleive beleive?
What is your minor premise - that hyperdulia and dulia is impossible or that hyperdulia and dulia are acceptable, proper and “biblical” (which is ACTUAL the Catholic position) but that Catholic’s in practice tend not to limit themselves to dulia and hyperdulia (your major premise)?
Well, some Catholics do go to an extreme in their devotion, but anyone who would say this has a false understanding of Catholic doctrine. Mary has been referred to as "the Mother of God," since the Church councils of the 4th Century, and both the Church of Rome and the Eastern Orthodox churches who are no in communion with Rome, the great majority of professed Christians, use this title. The term, a translation of the Greek term Theotokos is used to make clear the doctrine that Jesus of Nazareth is God as well as man, that he is therefore true God and true man. Some Protestants, consciously or not , think that his divinity and his humanity can be separated. Most liberal Protestants think of him only as a man. Mostly in reaction to Catholic devotion to the Virgin, most Protestants go to the other extreme and give Mary little more honor than they give to Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist. A bit player in the great drama. Catholics who read the first Two Chapters of Luke, see her having a much larger role.
I can't speak for the RM regarding the "hate site" issue, and laying emotional issues aside, an objective analysis of the content of this website in terms of it's claimed objective, with this article as Exhibit A, shows it to be very sloppy in terms of historical research and inaccurate in terms of the doctrinal content it claims to represent, i.e. correct espousal of Catholic beliefs. My God, a quick reading of just the first 6 numbered points showed major errors in each of them.
Personally, I don't have time to waste with this "bumper sticker statements" approach to exploration of doctrinal beliefs and apologetics, finding it to leave people with weak and juvenile beliefs regardless of their particular denomination (though I find it to be very popular among certain of the Protestant sects).
My advice to you - if learning the truth about what others believe for an informed discussion that can move forward is your purpose - is to avoid this site for accurate assessments of what the Catholic Church actually believes.
Of course, if your intentions are other,... then your thread is essentially worthless.
Considering the RCC presentation of their view of Mariology...
Wouldn't it make sense to discover what the Catholic Church believes from the Church Herself and her members. Just a thought. I consider that statement to be true of other denominational Churches and Ecclesial communions as well. For example, there are many different Protestant denominations which often have conflicting views amongst a host of theological issues. Usually, I have a hard time finding compendia or "catechisms" for them making it hard to keep tract of who believes what. So I have to depend on hearing it from individuals in each particular Church to know what they believe. Far be it from me to try and dictate to them what they actually believe. (I would note that the Catechism of the Catholic Church can be found online).
Since I am now a brother of Christ, I will go have a chat with His Mother and mine about all this. Her name is Mary.
Correct official Church teaching.
"In practice, these become practically indistinguishable. As a matter of point, Catholics pray to Mary and expect that she hears and answers all such prayers. This elevates her to a position of deity."
Protestant propaganda baloney.
Does LaHaye offer any evidence of this or is he just picking a number?