THE GREAT APOSTASY Chapt. 10 - RESULTS OF THE APOSTASY [Open]

http://www.cumorah.com/etexts/greatapostasy.txt ^ | James E. Talmage D.Sc.D., Ph.D., F.R.S.E.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

**Ditto Borax.***

Dadburnit! Beat me to it! But I use Borax as a flux in blacksmithing, that is if my wife leaves me any after the laundry.

[count-your-change]

No, it reveals how much those who can decipher the Egyptian writings know and how little Smith knew.
The fragment of papyrus that Smith “translated” from is available for scholars to study and they agree to a man that this fragment has nothing to do Abraham.
Of course this was known to the Mormon Church soon after the papyrus fragments were located. You though seem to know nothing of all of this so your comment is pointless.

[Colofornian]

To the faithful Latter-day Saint, a concluding proof of the universal apostasy and of the absolute need of a restoration of Priesthood from the heavens will be found in the divine reply to the inquiry of the boy prophet, Joseph Smith, as to which of all the contending sects was right: "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'"*

Here we go. Instead of a "carpet bomb" approach to each Christian body, a 14 yo lad named Joseph Smith tries the spiritual nuke approach upon EVERY Catholic, Protestant & Orthodox believer & church.

By reposting this here, Grig stands guilty of extending this empty accusation and can now no longer claim that he is innocent of calling all the rest of us "corrupt" and what we believe as being putrid in his eyes.

For those who extend this outright lie, it betrays any supposed true motive of "outreach" or "dialogue" because the very foundation is to accuse historic Christians as apostates and corrupt, abominable believers in Christ.

[dangus]

>> Near the end of the fifteenth century, in the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella, the court of the Inquisition, then known as the Holy Office, had been established in Spain. The prime purpose of this secret tribunal was the detection and punishment of heresy. Of this infamous institution as operative in Spain, Myers says: “The Holy Office, as the tribunal was styled, thus became the instrument of the most incredible cruelty. Thousands were burned at the stake, and tens of thousands more condemned to endure penalties scarcely less terrible. Queen Isabella, in giving her consent to the establishment of the tribunal in her dominions, was doubtless actuated by the purest religious zeal, and sincerely believed that in suppressing heresy she was discharging a simple duty, and rendering God good service. `In the love of Christ and His Maid-Mother,’ she says, `I have caused great misery. I have depopulated towns and districts, provinces and kingdoms.’ <<

Is Meyers a liar, or dumb as toast? The Holy Office refers to the Papal Inquisition, which was founded in 1230, and still exists today, known today as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Benedict XVI led for many years.

Isabella’s remorse was not an admission of guilt of killing thousands, as implied, but for having expelled the 80,000 Jews of Spain; if anything her lament supports the argument that she did what she did for fear of not being able to control the vigilante mobs, rather than for hatred of the Jews.

Not that this justifies the Spanish Inquisition, — using the Edicts of Grace to gain informants is a particularly abominable corruption of what should have been confessional, for instance — but neither is it worthwhile to continue to post as truth the wild exaggerations of 19th-century polemics.

[dangus]

>> Gee, I wonder how many Catholics will come on and refute that? They would skewer any Protestant who made that claim, but for some unknown reason, they seem to all want to give the Mormons a pass. I wonder why that is? <<

For one thing, the attack is so broad, and nonsensical, it’s like arguing with toast. If a farmstand grocer accuses you of walking off without paying for a peach, you’re going to insist your innocence. If a raving lunatic on the street corner accuses you of being of being a secret agent of illuminati, sent to poison the entire Earth with space viruses, you’re going to back away slowly and quietly. But if someone wants to believe, without any scriptural support, and pure fantasy for his historical support, that all Protestants AND Catholics AND Orthodox are purely apostate... I’m better off letting such a person be convicted by his own arguments; he’s certainly not going to affect any larger religious debate, or lead anyone astray.

Hence, my only refutations were to assertions made ferquently within popular culture, and for the sake only of other readers, not the original poster.

Frankly, I think Grig is doing a fantastic job of exposing the insanity and hatred apon which the Mormon church was founded. Since most people certainly don’t experience modern Mormons as hateful (and therefore also see their doctrines as more eccentric than insane), what’s frankly shocking to me is that Grig apparently thinks this will help the Mormon cause.

[greyfoxx39]

Frankly, I think Grig is doing a fantastic job of exposing the insanity and hatred apon which the Mormon church was founded. Since most people certainly don’t experience modern Mormons as hateful (and therefore also see their doctrines as more eccentric than insane), what’s frankly shocking to me is that Grig apparently thinks this will help the Mormon cause.

SHHHhhhh! They are having SUCH fun!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“That reveals how much you know about Egyptian culture!”

- Restornu, PhD Egyptologist

[FastCoyote]

“In the end, all false religions will collapse under the weight of their own lies and sins. “

Sort of like the FLDS is doing right now.

WHHOOOOOooops! ! ! A little too close to home brother Grig?

Hey, I just found a great book, The History of the American Indians, written in 1775 THAT CONFIRMS the Indians are Jews! But wait, that was Before JS had his “Revelation”! Hummmm.

[Elsie]

That reveals how much you know about Egyptian culture!

He knows more about it than you do about what was UNTRUE about your LAST church you worshiped in.

[Elsie]

It appears to me that the process of apostacy continues. We see in some circles....

And you are trying to tar the Christian church with THIS brush?

Shame!

[Elsie]

Don’t feel bad — they consider everyone but themselves apostates. You are in good company!

Hang on for some GENUWINE Mormon 'scripture'!

---

 

 

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

 

An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C. 

 

   1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
  2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
  3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.
  4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
  5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish.
  6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
  7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
  8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
  9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
  11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
  12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
  13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.
  14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
  15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
  16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
  17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
  18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
  19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
  20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
  21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
  22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
  23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
  24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
  25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
  26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
  27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel.
  28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
  29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
  30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

---

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

[FastCoyote]

Man, even us Lutherans were more out to reform the Catholic Church than to destroy it. Pretty harsh words from our Christian Mormon friends; I didn’t realize you were “utterly corrupt”. I seem to recall a minor thing called the Crusades that seems to have saved Christendom during that period, maybe Old Joe Smith missed that..

[Graybeard58]

I knew they were spaced out before I ever joined F.R., I just didn’t know how much.

These threads have certainly been educational. I have only ever known one mormon and he never talked about it. He was “good” too.

Want to see another screwy religion? Check out the J.W.s sometime. Sciientology, Christian Scientist. There’s a raft of them out there. Plenty of good ones too.

[FastCoyote]

“Hey, I just found a great book, The History of the American Indians, written in 1775 THAT CONFIRMS the Indians are Jews! But wait, that was Before JS had his “Revelation”! Hummmm.”

Here’s the link:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/faw:@field(DOCID+icufawcbc0005)

[FastCoyote]

[Luther was summoned before a council or “Diet” at Worms in 1521. There he openly declared for individual freedom of conscience. There is inspiration in his words: “I cannot submit my faith either to the pope or to the council, because it is as clear as the day that they have frequently erred and contradicted each other. Unless, therefore, I am convinced by the testimony of scripture, or by the clearest reasoning — unless I am persuaded by means of the passages I have quoted, — and unless they thus render my conscience bound by the word of God, I cannot and will not retract, for it is unsafe for a Christian to speak against his conscience. Here I stand, I can do no other, may God help me! Amen!”]

Everyone should realize that by the same line of reasoning, that he couldn’t find a lick of Mormon doctrine in the Bible, that he would have called the Mormons Apostates.

[Tennessee Nana]

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Were we graced by a visit from Mrs Indy again ?????????

[FastCoyote]

“I knew they were spaced out before I ever joined F.R., I just didn’t know how much.”

Until you are thrown into direct contact with their truebelievers, you really don’t realize how vindictive they can be (blood atonement stuff). Most people just know the guy down the street who stockpiles groceries in his basement.

[FastCoyote]

[For those who extend this outright lie, it betrays any supposed true motive of “outreach” or “dialogue” because the very foundation is to accuse historic Christians as apostates and corrupt, abominable believers in Christ. ]

I’m just hoping Grig doesn’t publish any of the Blood Atonement speeches (wink, wink, nod, nod), because that would really show his church’s true feelings.

Don’t thow me in that briar patch, Mr. Fox. Please don’t!
:)

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Were we graced by a visit from Mrs Indy again ?????????”

Mrs. Indiana Jones & The Crystal Peepstone!

[Tennessee Nana]

LOL