Posted on 06/13/2008 8:18:28 AM PDT by Raineygoodyear
That interpretation requires that you invent a pre-trib rapture.
A more biblical interpretation is that the image of the 24 elders represents the complete Church before the throne of God: 12 from the Old Testament era and 12 from the New. Just as we see the city of God in Revelation 21 being represented by 12 foundations stones (New Testament saints) and 12 gates (Old Testament saints)
The 24 elders symbolically represents the great assembly of God’s people identified in Hebrews 12:22, "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,".
One can only ask, "So what?"
Yet another prophecy guru arrives on the scene to (once again) fill us in on exactly when Jesus will return. When will Christians wake up to the devices of these charlatans?
But it must be so. This fellow is an authentic "messianic pastor" (never mind that he probably gave himself that title). That means he understands "all this Jewish" better than you and me. His insight in the Bible is impeccable. Don’t let a small fact like he doesn’t actually reference the Bible to support his conclusions fool you.
All you have to do is drink the messianic kool-aid and you will understand.
So, do you think any real "messianics" will stand up and denounce this guy?
Yes. Buggman already has.
The first book I ever picked up on prophecy actually predicted the date of the Rapture five months before I bought the book. It sits on my shelf to this day as a warning.
However, while date-setting is definitely out, the Bible does enjoin us to know the signs of the times. Sadly, the Body seems torn between those who want to play dating games and those who are sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting, "La-la-la, I can't hear you!"
Shalom.
Howdy there topcat54...As I see it & read it...there's no inventing a pre-trib Rapture to it. When John is taken up to the heavenly Jerusalem he see's the Church & the 24 elders already there.
I've always hated seeing the in-fighting going on in the body over when the Rapture takes place.
But anyways as I read it from the git-go John is shown the church & the 24 elders already in Heaven.
Revelation 1
The Revelation of Jesus the Messiah to the Seven Churches
1 This is the revelation of Jesus the Messiah, which God gave him to show his servants the things that must happen soon. He made it known by sending his messenger to his servant John,
2 who testified about this message from God and the testimony about Jesus the Messiah.
3 How blessed is the one who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy and obey what is written in it, for the time is near!
4 From John to the seven churches in Asia. May grace and peace be yours from the one who is, who was, and who is coming, from the seven spirits who are in front of his throne,
5 and from Jesus the Messiah, the witness, the faithful one, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To the one who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
6 and has made us a kingdom, priests for his God and Father, be glory and power forever and ever! Amen.
7 Look! He is coming in the clouds. Every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of him. So be it! Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” declares the Lord God, “the one who is, who was, and who is coming, the Almighty.”
John's Vision of the Messiah
9 I am John, your brother and partner in the oppression, kingdom, and patience that comes because of Jesus. I was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony about Jesus.
10 I came to be in the Spirit on the Day of the Lord, when I heard a loud voice behind me like a trumpet,
11 saying, “Write on a scroll what you see, and send it to the seven churches: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
12 Then I turned to see who was talking to me, and when I turned I saw seven gold lamp stands.
13 Among the lamp stands there was someone like the Son of Man. He was wearing a long robe with a gold sash around his chest.
14 His head and his hair were white like wool, in fact, as white as snow. His eyes were like flames of fire,
15 his feet were like glowing bronze refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of raging waters.
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp, two-edged sword. His face was like the sun when it shines with full force.
17 When I saw him, I fell down at his feet like a dead man. But he placed his right hand on me and said, “Stop being afraid! I am the first and the last,
18 the living one. I was dead, but look—I am alive forever and ever! I have the keys of Death and Hades.
19 Therefore, write down what you have seen, what is, and what is going to happen after this.
20 The secret meaning of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven gold lamp stands is this: the seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches, and the seven lamp stands are the seven churches.”
Revelation 3:8 ‘I know what you’ve been doing. Look! I have put in front of you an open door that no one can shut. You have only a little strength, but you have obeyed my word and have not denied my name.
9 I will make those who belong to the synagogue of Satan—those who claim to be Jews and aren't, but are lying—come and bow down at your feet. Then they will realize that I have loved you.
10 Because you have obeyed my command to endure, I will keep you from the hour of testing that is coming to the whole world to test those living on the earth.
11 I am coming soon! Hold on to what you have so that no one takes your victor's crown.
12 I will make the one who conquers to become a pillar in the sanctuary of my God, and he will never go out of it again. I will write on him the name of my God, the name of the city of my God (the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God), and my own new name.
13‘Let everyone listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
Revelation 4
The Vision of God's Throne
1 After these things I saw a door standing open in heaven. The first voice that I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this.”
2 Instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven with a person seated on the throne.
3 The person sitting there looked like jasper and carnelian, and there was a rainbow around the throne that looked like an emerald.
4 Around the throne were 24 other thrones, and on these thrones sat 24 elders wearing white robes and gold victor's crowns on their heads.
5 Flashes of lightning, noises, and peals of thunder came from the throne. Burning in front of the throne were seven flaming torches, which are the seven spirits of God.
6 In front of the throne was something like a sea of glass as clear as crystal. In the center of the throne and on each side of the throne were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back.
7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second living creature was like an ox, the third living creature had a face like a human, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle.
8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and were full of eyes inside and out. Without stopping day or night they were saying, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, who is, and who is coming.”
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to the one who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever,
10 the 24 elders bow down and worship in front of the one who sits on the throne, the one who lives forever and ever. They throw their victor's crowns in front of the throne and say,
11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory, honor, and power, because you created all things; they came into existence and were created because of your will.”
Revelation 5
The Vision of the Scroll with Seven Seals
1 Then I saw in the right hand of the one who sits on the throne a scroll written on the inside and on the outside, sealed with seven seals.
2 I also saw a powerful angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?”
3 No one in heaven, on earth, or under the earth could open the scroll or look inside it.
4 I began to cry bitterly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or look inside it.
5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Stop crying. Look! The Lion from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered. He can open the scroll and its seven seals.”
The Vision of the Lamb Taking the Scroll
6 Then I saw a lamb standing in the middle of the throne, the four living creatures, and the elders. He looked like he had been slaughtered. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent into all the earth.
7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who sits on the throne.
8 When the lamb had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders bowed down in front of him. Each held a harp and a gold bowl full of incense, the prayers of the saints.
9 They sang a new song:
“You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered. With your blood you purchased people for God from every tribe, language, people, and nation.
10 You made them a kingdom and priests for our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
The Vision of the Song of the Lamb
11 Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels, the living creatures, and the elders surrounding the throne. They numbered 10,000’s times 10,000 and thousands times thousands.
12 They sang with a loud voice, “Worthy is the lamb who was slaughtered to receive power, wealth, wisdom, strength, honor, glory, and praise!”
13 I heard every creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth, and on the sea, and everything that is in them, saying,
“To the one who sits on the throne and to the lamb be praise, honor, glory, and power forever and ever!”
14 Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!”, and the elders bowed down and worshiped.
Ttopcat54 said: A more biblical interpretation is that the image of the 24 elders represents the complete Church before the throne of God: 12 from the Old Testament era and 12 from the New. Just as we see the city of God in Revelation 21 being represented by 12 foundations stones (New Testament saints) and 12 gates (Old Testament saints)
AMEN!!! I agree that this is who the 24 elders are & they all are in the heavenly Jerusalem before the tribulation period starts.
And from everything I see happening in the news today it won't take to much longer before a loaf of bread will cost a days wages.
Revelation 6
The Vision of the Third Seal Opened 5 When the lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Go!” I looked, and there was a black horse! Its rider held a scale in his hand.
6 I heard what sounded like a voice from among the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, or three quarts of barley for a denarius. But don't damage the olive oil or the wine!”
Which means to me that the Rapture is very, very near! Come Lord Jesus!!!
God Bless you topcat54
The point is they are only there because you believe in a pre-trib rapture. There are other explanations of the vision that do not require a pre-trib theory.
For example, spiritually speaking we are before the throne of God right now even though we physically inhabit the earth. Paul tells us this in Ephesians 2:
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,According to Paul, we are already represented in heaven by virtue of our standing in Christ. On many Sunday when we worship God under the leadership of our elders we sing, "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created." When we do so we are worshipping before the very throne of God just as the vision in Revelation indicates.
And Hebrews 12 tells us that we have already come to the heavenly Mount Zion, the high holy place of God.
So, Revelation 4 does not directly support the notion of a pre-trib rapture. You have to presuppose it first to find it there.
|
|
|||
Gods |
Note: this topic is from June.He states after 2015 there are no more Eclipses that fall on the Jewish Passover ever....y'know, because the world is going to end. |
||
|
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · · History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists · |
|||
SID ROTH had Rabbi Jonathan Cahn as a guest this week. He comments on the blood moon, the holy days, and the harbingers.
http://sidroth.org/ (1/2 hour in length)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.