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Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams warns rebels over Church of England split
Telegraph ^ | July 1, 2008 | George Pitcher, Religion Editor, and Graham Tibbetts

Posted on 07/01/2008 10:03:31 AM PDT by NYer

The Archbishop of Canterbury has rounded on rebel Anglicans seeking to bypass his authority over issues such as homosexuality and women priests.

Dr Rowan Williams adopted unusually forthright language to accuse the hardline traditionalists of lacking legitimacy

One of his staff even suggested the rebels were becoming a "Protestant sect".

The Archbishop's comments follow the creation at the weekend of the Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans (Foca), a global network for millions of Anglicans unhappy at the ordination of the openly homosexual Bishop of New Hampshire, Gene Robinson.

Dr Williams called for patience from those who want to create an alternative worldwide Anglican Communion.

"It is not enough to dismiss the existing structures of the Communion," he said. "If they are not working effectively, the challenge is to renew them rather than to improvise solutions that may seem to be effective for some in the short term but will continue to create more problems than they solve."

The announcement of the Foca network came at the end of the Global Anglican Future Conference (Gafcon) in Jerusalem.

Some 300 bishops, principally from Africa but also from the United States and Britain, claimed that they wanted to "sideline" Dr Williams' leadership of the worldwide Communion in favour of Foca. They published 14 central tenets of faith, based on traditionalist interpretations of scripture, and committed themselves solely to the 1662 Book of Common Prayer.

Three of the key rebels are due to speak in London today.

In a statement issued on the eve of their arrival, Dr Williams said: "Gafcon's proposals for the way ahead are problematic in all sorts of ways and I urge those who have outlined these to think very carefully about the risks entailed."

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Mainline Protestant; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: anglican; gafcon; gaychurch; immoralityorg; lambeth; nonchristiancult; rowanwilliams

Members of the Anglican Communion pray during a visit to the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem June 23, 2008, as part of the the Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON). Conservative Anglican leaders on Sunday began a week of discussions in Jerusalem on the future of the worldwide Communion and warned of a parting of ways with liberal churches. The Dome of the Rock on the compound known to Muslims as al-Haram al-Sharif, and to Jews as Temple Mount, is seen in the background. REUTERS/Ammar Awad (JERUSALEM)

1 posted on 07/01/2008 10:03:31 AM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

Protestant church meet protestants.


2 posted on 07/01/2008 10:05:46 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
One of his staff even suggested the rebels were becoming a "Protestant sect".

Fascinating statement! Another Protestant sect.

3 posted on 07/01/2008 10:05:53 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: Huber; sionnsar
FYI..

BTW, if anyone here has ever seen any of the episodes of the "Vicar of Dibley"...there is one in which Rowan appears..does a cameo..and that fact alone should have been cause enough to call for his resignation..

4 posted on 07/01/2008 10:06:13 AM PDT by ken5050
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To: NYer
NOW the Archdruid of Canterbury actually manages to issue a strongly-worded (for him) statement . . . after all the water that has gone under the dam since 2003, he finally manages to muster some courage -- to rebuke the wrong parties!

To paraphrase, the shepherd is an idiot, and the sheep are scattered . . . .

"Sharna pax and get the poal
When the Ardship of Cambry comes out of the hoal."

- Riddley Walker. Don't look for it unless you have plenty of time to puzzle it out. A good but VERY strange book.

5 posted on 07/01/2008 10:13:48 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: NYer

It’s Williams’ church that is becoming the “sect.” In fact, his politically correct, secular values church will probably not exist in 50 years. The GAFCON people are right to get out before they too are brought down.

It’s also pathetic to see how Archbishop Williams is trying to find some spine this late in the game


6 posted on 07/01/2008 10:13:50 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: NYer

The Archlayman of Canterbury complaining about a schism. Now that’s funny!


7 posted on 07/01/2008 10:15:44 AM PDT by Neoncon (I am disrespectful to Socialism! Can you see I am serious?)
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To: NYer

Who does he think he is, the pope?

Bah-ha-ha, I’m lovin’ the irony!


8 posted on 07/01/2008 10:32:27 AM PDT by Juana la Loca
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To: PGR88
I agree with you, too little, too late. Also this was funny: If they are not working effectively, the challenge is to renew them

I believe that this group of people have been trying to renew and reconcile; but, have been consistently put off by Williams aforementioned lack of spine.

9 posted on 07/01/2008 11:07:45 AM PDT by LibertarianLiz
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To: LibertarianLiz

He’s been too busy with important C of E matters, like advocating sharia law for Muslims in Great Britain.


10 posted on 07/01/2008 11:11:33 AM PDT by Cecily
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To: NYer
One of his staff even suggested the rebels were becoming a "Protestant sect".

LOL!

11 posted on 07/01/2008 11:15:07 AM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: NYer
Dr Rowan Williams adopted unusually forthright language to accuse the hardline traditionalists of lacking legitimacy One of his staff even suggested the rebels were becoming a "Protestant sect".



Say what?!?

12 posted on 07/01/2008 12:48:11 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: NYer
"It is not enough to dismiss the existing structures of the Communion," he said. "If they are not working effectively, the challenge is to renew them rather than to improvise solutions that may seem to be effective for some in the short term but will continue to create more problems than they solve."

"Martin Luther.......paging Martin Luther!! Please pick up the courtesy phone!! Urgent message from the Archbishop of Canterbury concerning authentic reform of church structures."

Ironic how the children of the Reformation issue a call to unity when it's their church which is about to be sundered and split.

13 posted on 07/01/2008 12:52:18 PM PDT by marshmallow (An infallible Bible is useless without an infallible interpreter)
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To: Petronski

I honestly laughed out loud.


14 posted on 07/01/2008 12:59:41 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice. " GKC)
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To: Petronski

I honestly laughed out loud.


15 posted on 07/01/2008 12:59:52 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice. " GKC)
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To: NYer
The Brit papers have been more than a bit alarmist, wringing their hands and crying schism. Below is the statement issued by the ABC. Judge for yourself. He has a real mess on his hands and I would hate to be him.

The Final Statement from the GAFCON meeting in Jordan and Jerusalem contains much that is positive and encouraging about the priorities of those who met for prayer and pilgrimage in the last week. The ‘tenets of orthodoxy’ spelled out in the document will be acceptable to and shared by the vast majority of Anglicans in every province, even if there may be differences of emphasis and perspective on some issues. I agree that the Communion needs to be united in its commitments on these matters, and I have no doubt that the Lambeth Conference will wish to affirm all these positive aspects of GAFCON’s deliberations. Despite the claims of some, the conviction of the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as Lord and God and the absolute imperative of evangelism are not in dispute in the common life of the Communion.

However, GAFCON’s proposals for the way ahead are problematic in all sorts of ways, and I urge those who have outlined these to think very carefully about the risks entailed.

A ‘Primates’ Council’ which consists only of a self-selected group from among the Primates of the Communion will not pass the test of legitimacy for all in the Communion. And any claim to be free to operate across provincial boundaries is fraught with difficulties, both theological and practical – theological because of our historic commitments to mutual recognition of ministries in the Communion, practical because of the obvious strain of responsibly exercising episcopal or primatial authority across enormous geographical and cultural divides.

Two questions arise at once about what has been proposed. By what authority are Primates deemed acceptable or unacceptable members of any new primatial council? And how is effective discipline to be maintained in a situation of overlapping and competing jurisdictions?

No-one should for a moment impute selfish or malicious motives to those who have offered pastoral oversight to congregations in other provinces; these actions, however we judge them, arise from pastoral and spiritual concern. But one question has repeatedly been raised which is now becoming very serious: how is a bishop or primate in another continent able to discriminate effectively between a genuine crisis of pastoral relationship and theological integrity, and a situation where there are underlying non-theological motivations at work? We have seen instances of intervention in dioceses whose leadership is unquestionably orthodox simply because of local difficulties of a personal and administrative nature. We have also seen instances of clergy disciplined for scandalous behaviour in one jurisdiction accepted in another, apparently without due process. Some other Christian churches have unhappy experience of this problem and it needs to be addressed honestly.

It is not enough to dismiss the existing structures of the Communion. If they are not working effectively, the challenge is to renew them rather than to improvise solutions that may seem to be effective for some in the short term but will continue to create more problems than they solve. This challenge is one of the most significant focuses for the forthcoming Lambeth Conference. One of its major stated aims is to restore and deepen confidence in our Anglican identity. And this task will require all who care as deeply as the authors of the statement say they do about the future of Anglicanism to play their part.

The language of ‘colonialism’ has been freely used of existing patterns. No-one is likely to look back with complacency to the colonial legacy. But emerging from the legacy of colonialism must mean a new co-operation of equals, not a simple reversal of power. If those who speak for GAFCON are willing to share in a genuine renewal of all our patterns of reflection and decision-making in the Communion, they are welcome, especially in the shaping of an effective Covenant for our future together.

I believe that it is wrong to assume we are now so far apart that all those outside the GAFCON network are simply proclaiming another gospel. This is not the case; it is not the experience of millions of faithful and biblically focused Anglicans in every province. What is true is that, on all sides of our controversies, slogans, misrepresentations and caricatures abound. And they need to be challenged in the name of the respect and patience we owe to each other in Jesus Christ.

I have in the past quoted to some in the Communion who would call themselves radical the words of the Apostle in I Cor.11.33: ‘wait for one another’. I would say the same to those in whose name this statement has been issued. An impatience at all costs to clear the Lord’s field of the weeds that may appear among the shoots of true life (Matt.13.29) will put at risk our clarity and effectiveness in communicating just those evangelical and catholic truths which the GAFCON statement presents.

16 posted on 07/01/2008 1:00:41 PM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we write in marble. JHuett)
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To: Soliton

There has been excellent coverage of GAFCON and the issues that lead to it on the orthodox Anglican Blogs. I recommend Titusonenine, Stand Firm in Faith and Midwest Conservative Journal.


17 posted on 07/01/2008 1:25:37 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: NYer

How can the apostate Archbishop speak truth?

In no way.


18 posted on 07/01/2008 1:47:20 PM PDT by johnstown
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To: NYer

You sure you want to agree with the guy who thinks it’s just hunky-dory to ordain a homosexual bishop who left his wife to cohabit with his guy toy?


19 posted on 07/01/2008 2:21:30 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: NYer

I do feel a modest sympathy for ABC Rowan. He didn’t make this problem — ECUSA and the Canadian Church went down the road to ruination.

He admonished both when he saw the scale of the problem, but certainly too little and too late — acting only due to the problem for the greater communion and not for the apostacy.

Lambeth in 98 was positive in setting aside the issue of Gay Clergy and the like and it was ECUSA who ignored the settlement and broke the whole can of worms open in an effort to run off all orthodox in the ECUSA.


20 posted on 07/01/2008 2:35:12 PM PDT by KC Burke (Men of intemperate minds can never be free...their passions forge their fetters.)
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To: NYer

The Archbishop of Cantabury may have pushed the Anglicans not only futher away from him but in the future into the arms of Rome.


21 posted on 07/01/2008 3:35:22 PM PDT by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^==^..^=)
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To: NYer

God Bless these true Christians.


22 posted on 07/01/2008 3:36:45 PM PDT by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^==^..^=)
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To: xzins
You sure you want to agree with the guy who thinks it’s just hunky-dory to ordain a homosexual bishop who left his wife to cohabit with his guy toy?

Are you posing that question to me? ROFL!

23 posted on 07/01/2008 3:57:42 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

Yes. You seemed concerned that they’d want to break away from the apostate Anglican hierarchy.


24 posted on 07/01/2008 4:22:29 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: xzins
Yes. You seemed concerned that they’d want to break away from the apostate Anglican hierarchy.

The news article does not reflect any personal view. As a Catholic, I pray that those who seek the Truth will find it in the Catholic Church.

25 posted on 07/01/2008 4:38:15 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: Juana la Loca

I think that Christianity left this organization a very long time ago. It will go down in history as a pathetic attempt to widen the circle enough to allow in the very people that God said should NOT be in the circle. NO UNCLEAN THING can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. We are all welcome there, but we have to cast aside every sin and can do this only through the name and merits of Jesus Christ. What is so hard about that basic doctrine that has to be maniuplated by churches? In the end, the churches will all end up lining up against one—and it will surprise the hell out of everyone except members of that one church...and it will surpise many of them as well.


26 posted on 07/01/2008 5:21:27 PM PDT by carcar (Carlos)
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To: NYer
One of his staff even suggested the rebels were becoming a "Protestant sect".

Becoming Protestant? Maybe he means Protestant squared.

Then again, they're free to come home to the church they belonged to before Henry VIII demanded a divorce, stole the assets of the Catholic Church and executed St. Thomas More and St. John Fisher.

Come on home. No hard feelings.

27 posted on 07/01/2008 5:41:28 PM PDT by Barnacle (Communists and Jihadists were at odds...Then came Barack.)
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To: Barnacle

Great tagline.


28 posted on 07/01/2008 5:46:15 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. Watch your extremities - we're hungry!)
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To: Tax-chick
Thanks.

Speaking of tag-lines, would you like to tell us about Herpets?

29 posted on 07/01/2008 5:50:10 PM PDT by Barnacle (Communists and Jihadists were at odds...Then came Barack.)
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To: Barnacle

Herpets are reptiles and amphibians. Our collection includes three tropical anoles, a corn snake, two bearded dragons, and a batch of frogs that my husband told Anoreth to turn loose, only I know she didn’t.


30 posted on 07/01/2008 5:53:32 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. Watch your extremities - we're hungry!)
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To: carcar
NO UNCLEAN THING can enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

That's why there is Purgatory. - So that good Christians, who aren't perfectly clean can get in.

I'm less prepared to enter Heaven than I am to attend a black tie dinner. And believe me. I'm not prepared to attend a black tie dinner tonight.

It doesn't matter whether someone believes in Purgatory or not. If it exists, and you're Heaven bound, you'll visit there someday.

31 posted on 07/01/2008 6:00:03 PM PDT by Barnacle (Communists and Jihadists were at odds...Then came Barack.)
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To: Tax-chick
Dear Tax-chick,

My younger son went to science camp this summer at the Catholic high school my older son will be attending in the fall. On the last day, the director of the camp, my older son's prospective biology teacher this coming year, gave all the young lads and lasses a small terrarium (he called it a “biome”) with a green anole residing therein.

But he called it a chameleon. So, for two weeks, I'd been searching the Internet for something to tell me what sort of chameleon he is. As I'm sure you're aware, green anoles are sometimes called American chameleons, but of course, they aren't actually chameleons.

Anyway, the gifting of these little creatures was all done without consulting any of the folks who would actually be caring for the poor little beasts - the parents!

As the official bearer of live, gut-loaded crickets to the poor little animal, I'd like to go give the teacher a piece of my mind (beating him up is pretty much out of the question, as the teacher is about six or eight inches taller than me, younger, and mildly athletic-looking), but my older son is afraid of what that will do for his grade this coming year. LOL.

So, now we're learning all about the care and feeding of this little fellow. And just today, we finally discovered he wasn't a chameleon at all, but a green anole, probably the southern sub-species (no pink or red dewlap).

Oh, and “he” is likely a “she.”

But we named him,... er,... her, "Smaug," anyway.


sitetest

32 posted on 07/01/2008 6:07:40 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

At least if Smaug is living by his or herself, you won’t be having eggs and little anoles, unless she was gravid when you got her!

We began our Herpet Adventure last summer, when Tom (#2 son) took “Reptile and Amphibian Study” at Boy Scout camp. One of the requirements is to keep or regularly monitor a reptile, so we got a terrarium and some lizards. The first batch had eggs, but we didn’t succeed in raising the babies. (Very difficult, according to the books.) We also lost some of the adults to this-or-that crisis. Anoles are unrelated to chameleons, and you’ll learn to love crickets, really. It helps if you have a cat to clear up any that get away.

Eventually, we achieved a stable population of three anoles, with no recent births, although Bill said he found an egg that didn’t hatch. We got Slytherin’ Susan the snake from a lady I met at a Girl Scouts’ event - great price on a mature (10 year old =/-) snake and all her (its) gear.

DP and Bill bought the dragons a couple of weeks ago with the proceeds from a Quinceanera Mass our Spanish choir did. They (”Slash” and “Santana,” sex unknown) eat umpteen dozen crickets a week, and Santana seems to have eaten one of Slash’s toes. I hope Slash lives, because they were expensive!

The frogs come from the local wetlands; Anoreth keeps an indoor swamp every summer, in true Weasley style.


33 posted on 07/01/2008 6:19:39 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. Watch your extremities - we're hungry!)
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To: sitetest

Oh, you need this book:

http://www.shopanimalnetwork.com/product.aspx?cid=68&pid=191&mid=1

Advanced Vivarium Systems is *the* source on Herpets.


34 posted on 07/01/2008 6:22:58 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. Watch your extremities - we're hungry!)
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To: NYer
Dr Rowan Williams adopted unusually forthright language to accuse the hardline traditionalists of lacking legitimacy

Forthright language is never used to dissuade the gay mafia from desecrating the church. Too bad.

35 posted on 07/02/2008 3:31:44 AM PDT by x_plus_one (let them eat cake, drive small electric cars and take the bus..........)
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To: NYer

>>Fascinating statement! Another Protestant sect.”

Prot·es·tant:

1. any Western Christian who is not an adherent of a Catholic, Anglican, or Eastern Church.
2. a person who protests.


36 posted on 07/02/2008 6:23:47 AM PDT by servantboy777
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To: marshmallow
>>Ironic how the children of the Reformation issue a call to unity when it's their church which is about to be sundered and split.”

Children of the reformation....oh man, y'all got it bad.

This is NOT about a church split, it is about orthodoxy, it is about halting the revisionist efforts to liberalize and marginalize scripture.

The catholic church is struggling with the same issues...or did you forget that?

I would submit that those who left the catholic church due to scandals would indeed be described as protestants. (In protest.)

37 posted on 07/02/2008 6:30:51 AM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Biggirl
The Archbishop of Cantabury may have pushed the Anglicans not only futher away from him but in the future into the arms of Rome.

...No.
38 posted on 07/02/2008 4:23:21 PM PDT by newguy357
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To: Barnacle
That's why there is Purgatory. - So that good Christians, who aren't perfectly clean can get in.

Yes. Because, as any good Roman Catholic should know, the blood of Christ isn't quite enough.
39 posted on 07/02/2008 4:25:59 PM PDT by newguy357
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