Posted on 07/08/2008 7:13:42 AM PDT by NYer
Washington, Jul. 7, 2008 (CWNews.com) - The US bishops have rejected the latest proposed English translation of the liturgical prayers from the Roman Missal.
In a mail-in ballot, support for the proposed translation fell well short of the two-thirds required for approval by the US bishops' conference. The mail ballot became necessary because of an inconclusive vote at a June meeting of the episcopal conference.
The proposed translation was for "Proper" prayers for the Mass: the prayers for particular feasts and liturgical seasons. The US bishops have already given their consent to an English translation of the unchanging prayers of the "Ordinary;" that translation now awaits final approval from Rome.
The vote marks the first outright rejection of a translation submitted to the US bishops for their approval. The bishops' liturgical committee will now solicit proposed changes in the text and submit a revised translation to the bishops at their November 2008 meeting.
In announcing the negative vote on the latest section of the overall translation project, the US bishops' conference said that plans remain in place to complete the full translation of the Roman Missal by November 2010.
Debates over English-language translations of liturgical texts have been common within the US bishops' conference for well over a decade. Led by Bishop Donald Trautman of Erie, Pennsylvania, the former chairman of the bishops' liturgy committee, critics of the new translations have complained that they use archaic language and defended the earlier work of the International Commission for English in the Liturgy. That group, in turn, has drawn criticism from conservative Catholics-- and from the Vatican-- for making unauthorized changes in the language and meaning of the Latin originals.
Ping
The hippy deadenders are fighting hard - but they are apparently in the minority now. I wonder how many 75th birthdays away we are from having a truly reverent lectionary.
Can someone who is familiar with this new translation explain where it comes from? I guess I’m old school but shouldn’t the translation be filtered through a process at the Vatican? There are two parishes I attend and they have slight differences. The one closest is more hippy dippy but there are other things that I do like about it, not the least of which is that it is closer. Just asking.
I don’t get it? God only listens to prayers spoken in Latin?
This thread has absolutely nothing to do with the Latin Mass.
It involves a revision of the vernacular Mass.
Since you asked, my answer is no. You clearly did not even read the article.
What happened to the obedience that Bishops say they will promise to the Pope?
These were prayers in English.
Sorry you didn’t know that.
Partially correct. Koine Greek and Hebrew prayers are also understood.
That's why if you ever visit an RCIA class (conversion class to Catholicism) the first thing they do is enroll you in a Berlitz Latin course so God can understand what you're saying.
If you get past that then you're allowed to begin learning Catholic theology and doctrine.
It's complex, but here is an outline.
When the vernacular Mass according to the new Roman Rite of Pope Paul VI was promulgated in 1970, a group of translators assembled by the bishops of the English-speaking nations called the International Committee on English in the Liturgy (ICEL) produced a translation of the Missal which was used by the bishop's conferences of these nations.
This coincided with the publication of the New American Bible in 1970 for lectionary use in the American dioceses.
For a number of years there were various complaints about the slipshod work of ICEL, the intentional mistranslations, the aggressive implementation of "inclusive language" that varied from diocese to diocese and even parish to parish.
Pope John Paul II took notice of some of the glaring inadequacies of ICEL's work and asked that the USCCB make changes in the translation of the Missal to correct them.
In 1992 changes were finally submitted but were inadequate from the Holy See's viewpoint.
In 2001, the Holy See issued the document Liturgiam authenticam (LA) outlining abuses in liturgical translations that needed to be addressed, sending the revisers back to the drawing board.
Now, we have new translations that are more accurate and reverent as well as compliant with LA, but the USCCB continues to reject the implementation of the improved version.
“What happened to the obedience that Bishops say they will promise to the Pope?”
They found that the obedience was not required of them.
Freegards, thanks for all the pings
Dear USCCB,
Your objection to the more accurate and elevated English translations is duly noted.
Until we can come to an agreement on the use of this translation, which has been approved by the rest of the English-speaking world, the indult for the use of the vernacular in Mass in the United States has been suspended.
Please use the official Latin texts of the Mass until further notice.
Sincerely, BXVI
“That’s why if you ever visit an RCIA class (conversion class to Catholicism) the first thing they do is enroll you in a Berlitz Latin course so God can understand what you’re saying”
That would be called a lie. It’s covered in the part of the doctrine that includes the Ten Commandments.
No, that would be called a joke. Lighten up.
Sorry didn’t see the sarcasm, initially.
No worries - I thought about putting in a sarcasm indicator - maybe I should have but it was so preposterous I didn’t think it was necessary .... But I wanted to retain the level of absurdity of the original response to which I was replying.
BTW I DID go through RCIA.
Washington, Jul. 7, 2008 (CWNews.com) - The US bishops have rejected the latest proposed English translation
******************
Above is the first sentence of the article.
When dealing with an article about the USCCB the /s/ tag is always needed. With them, one never knows!!!!! LOL!
Actually, the leader of the opposition was my bishop, Galeone (who was thanked by Trautman for this valuable service).
He got a great put-down, btw. The ICEL sent him a letter carefully explaining the finer points of Latin-English translation, since he had boasted of his knowledge of Latin because years ago he had taught high school Latin! So the finest Latin scholars in the world made him look like an absolute idiot.
Not that this was enough to stop him. Until Rome censures some of these guys, nothing will happpen. My bishop deserves it, but I think they’re holding off because he’s not very bright and they suspect that he’s being manipulated by others. But he still rejects every kind gesture they make to him because he’s so convinced that he’s special, and I think he’s going to force them to do something about him if he keeps on doing this stuff. The new translation would have passed if it hadn’t been for Galeone (who was thanked by the worst bishop in the US, Lynch of St Pete’s, for “giving him courage to resist”).
Thanks. I guess I thought that was why we have a Pope. The American Bishops are way too powerful.
LOL! That would be some kind of letter. Can you imagine the panic among priests and bishops?
In addition to Liturgiam Authenticam, the other thing JP II did to put the translations back on track was to reconstitute ICEL, and also to set up a “Vox Clara” commission at the Vatican with English speaking bishops to advise the Holy See on English language issues.
I would hope such a letter would be required to be read from the pulpit the Sunday after it is issued. Otherwise John and Mary Catholic won’t know why Mass isn’t in English anymore.
All jokes aside, I think this is what the Pope is aiming at - there’s a rumor that the Consecration is going to go back to Latin in the Novus Ordo. It’s but a step from that to the rest of the Canon.
I’d love to see it. My bishop was very influential in rejecting the new translation, and it would be so wonderful to see him have to now do a large part in Latin as a result of his hostile, ignorant reaction!
It does not appear that comprehension of English is universal on this thread.
To further clarify, I suggest you read the article again...s l o w l y.
I have this same division within my own parish. Father is very conservative, and uses old school language. But when he is away our visiting Padre’s cause us to stare in disbelief at times. Something as simple as the Profession of Faith (Nicene Creed):
...For us men and our slavation, came down from Heaven...
Becomes
...For us and our salvation, came down from Heaven...
Men can never mean human (even though man is in the word human); it must mean it excludes women, so the visitors must think.
LOL! From your keyboard to God’s ears! Or at least BXVI’s ears! :)
I always say “men” a little louder.
LOL!
Well, several things...it is true that the Holy Father has made the Traditional Latin Mass more available. But it is also true that the ordinary form of the Mass (in the Latin rite) is first and foremost in Latin, although it is almost never said in Latin.
There are several reasons he did so, one of which is to try to improve the way the new Mass is said by exposing people to some aspects of past worship which have been deemphasized since the Second Vatican Council.
Although I was not brought up in the days of the Traditional Latin Mass, I have gravitated towards more traditional forms of worship, and I occasionally drive the fifty miles necessary to attend the only regularly scheduled old Mass in the area. I have been studying a bit of Latin, and while I don’t yet understand all of the words, I can follow along fairly well, even without a handmissal.
The homily is in English, and the readings are generally re-read in English as well.
There is something very special and mysterious about the old form of the Mass, and when I am there, I feel a special connection to other Catholics all over the world, and through the ages, who worship (or have worshipped) in the same way, using the same words.
Now, this article, on the other hand, has nothing whatsoever to do with the Traditional Latin Mass, other than it clearly demonstrates some of the mischief that can be achieved through the translation process. This was done in the 1973 translation of the 1970 Missal, and now that much of that is to be undone by the new translation of the new 2000 Missal, obstacles are repeated thrown in the way. The goal of the Vatican is simply to get a faithful translation into the vernacular of the missal, using accurate, elevated language.
Some of the bishops seem to underestimate the average parishioners’ intelligence, and assume we’re not only too dumb to understand Latin, but too dumb to understand English, as well, unless it is dumbed down to a third-grade level!
Dominus vobiscum!
Regrettably, we are accustom to posts that are so preposterous, but NOT sarcasm, that the sarcasm tag is a worthwhile practice.
I too have made the mistake of shoot first and ask questions later.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.