Posted on 07/11/2008 5:54:33 AM PDT by Between the Lines
Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.
Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church.
Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition.
In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II’s ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been “erroneous or ambiguous” and had prompted confusion and doubt.
It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, “Dominus Iesus,” which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”
In the new document and an accompanying commentary, which were released as the pope vacations here in Italy’s Dolomite mountains, the Vatican repeated that position.
“Christ ‘established here on earth’ only one church,” the document said. The other communities “cannot be called ‘churches’ in the proper sense” because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ’s original apostles.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Especially we Baptists. Then again, we think all of the others are heathens too.
Any true believer in Jesus is a member of the Church. That's by definition.
This is a basic point of confusion between Catholics and many other Christians. When I say that the RCC isn't the Church, that does not mean that I am trying to take the claim of Church for myself or my synod.
The "Church" is not an earthly institution, but the entire community of believers in Jesus. The Nicene Creed is a good example of that statement of faith.
That to the extent others disagreed on basic doctrine they were in error?
Errors will be burned away at the time of judgment. Errors do not kick you out of the Church.
Simple set theory can help here. Not everyone in the Roman Catholic Church is a true believer. This is true for all churches. Membership in a "church" does not qualify someone for membership in the "Church".
Similarly, there are true believers who are not part of the Roman Catholic Church.
How can the RCC be the Church, when parts of the RCC are not part of the Church and when parts of the Church are not part of the RCC?
*chuckle* LOL!
That just switched my attitude from “I can’t BELIEVE these idiots!” to “Yeah, I’ve had days like that!”
( -;
They probably lost it.
A year ago (when the story first came out), the lamestream media mistranslates Benedict’s words, then attacked him for his use of language... that he didn’t use. But “conservative” Christians all over Freeperdom suddently trusted the media with all their hearts, minds and souls.
“Defect” doesn’t mean in Latin what it means in English. In English, it means “miscreant.” In Latin, it means, “unjoined.” “Defected” would be a better translation that “defective,” except THAT would create an unintended military metaphor akin to treachery. The reality is the Orthodoz are more in like someone who leaves the Indiana Civil-war militia for the Illinois militia than someone who has deserted or joined the Alabama militia.
The word translated as “church” means “assembled.” The Pope was merely asserting the far less belligerent assertion that Protestant “assemblies” aren’t in fact “assembled” together, in contrast to the Protestant notion that there exists some sort of invisible assembly which includes a Christian in an Anglican pew to a Christian in a Baptist true more than truly that to the Episcopagan next to him.
Drunk: “So did I; I just never thought he’d do it again!”
Well done, dangus.
Which is to claim for the individual what is collectively claimed by many denominations. But not, it seems, the Episcopal Church or the Presbyterian Church USA, who seem to have dumped Scripture as a standard.
How about the Methodists, who broke off from the Anglicans? Or the Salvation Army and the Church of the Nazarene, who, in turn, broke from the Methodists?
True, but remember, the Bible says that each person will be held accountable for their lives, which includes their faifhfulness to search out the Scriptures, learn from them, and apply them to their lives. So, while the individual is responsible, this doesn't necessarily make each individual an authority unto themselves - it just makes each person individually accountable. There'll be no hiding behind an excuse like "Well, the bishop told me that's what I should believe!" on the judgment day.
The Pope is being far more cordial than many of the Baptist and Reformed preachers who say that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon and Catholics are pagan idolators who worship Mary.
“If you’re concerned about apostolic succession, Orthodoxy is the only communion that has a true claim to it. Sorry Catholics, that’s just the way it is.”
I thought the Orthodox Churches recognized the Catholics as apostolic but flawed, and vice versa.
Freegards
But didn’t the Pope here say that the Orthodox aren’t apostolic? It’s not a very useful think to say if fostering ecumenism is high on your priority list.
I am sorry, Doug Loss, but you have your history a little skewed. In 1054 a papal legate working under the lapsed authority of a pope who had already died excommunicated one man, the Patriarch of Constantinople, not the entire eastern church. Since then Rome has repeatedly sought to repair the breach, only to be rebuffed by the Orthodox. Make your claims based on alleged false doctrines held by Rome if you must, but let us keep the history straight. Rome never sought to separate herself from the eastern churches, this was the work of an increasingly hostile Constantinople which in time was followed by the other eastern patriarchates.
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