Indeed.
Posted on 07/24/2008 10:15:40 AM PDT by Gamecock
LOL. Thanks
you seam to be missing the point Jesus said If I am lifted up I will draw all Me unto me. The world was passing jugement upon the Son of God because of Christ's obedience God the Father gave him all authority and Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
He was Judged by the world and the world's judgment was to lift him up from the earth on a cross. God the Father lifted him up above all names now Jesus will draw all men unto him for judgment
what this verse has to do with the Calvinist doctrine of predestination I Don't know
Ephesians(KJV):
1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
As you can the (ugh!) Calvinist Doctrine is consistent with the Biblical Doctrine
Indeed.
It’s just that I’ve heard this “failure” theme before and that was what was meant. From the quote posted here, the theme was the same.
Successful as around whom a new religion was built that included the founding of The United States.
True, but those weren’t within the context of the question.
I disagree.
No. I disagree. ;-)
On my reading of this scripture, I'd say Jesus did indeed signify His divine intent to bring one hundred percent of all men to Himself — as He will surely do, on Judgment Day. No man can avoid this judgment. More, God Who created each and every individual human soul and loves each and every one sent His Son to redeem all of them. Only man's refusal to accept his redemption in Christ can separate him from the Body of Christ and his salvation in Christ.
So I think that Jesus, indeed, meant what He said, in the literal sense.
FWIW.
I agree.
I maintain that God approved denominations so that ONE church would not be lording it all over people and they could think for themselves.
I think so. He’s using satire, too, I believe. But then, some folks will always think the worst of any TV evangelist. Sigh.
What scripture leads you to believe that the Lord intends to bring 100% of humanity (you didn’t mean to exclude women, I assume) to salvation? Jude 4 is but one verse that clearly shows some people to have been born and predestined by God to damnation.
English translations oft mislead with words that are inherently ambiguous.
If He wants to save all, He is not sovereign - as it’s obvious from the world and explicit in the Scripture that not all have been or will be saved.
We know He is sovereign, therefore, we must have an incorrect grasp on His intent to save “all men”. Oftentimes, the English word, “all” comes from the Greek word “pas” - which means “whosoever”; quite a bit different from “all inclusive”. This is the case with John 12:32, for example.
I think that it is the height of arrogance for ANY mortal to judge Christ as a failure based on our own standards. We ALL fall short of his standards without even trying.
Oh, and Scripture is very clear - men are hell-bound not because they reject Christ (having supposedly been drawn to Him). They are hell-bound because all men are born in sin and do not believe on Jesus - that is the natural state of the human.
Those whom God calls to Himself, those will be saved; IAW with Ephesians 1:3 - 6.
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. - Philippians 2:10-11
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20
In this mortal life, only those with "ears to hear" - a gift of the Father - can know Christ, the Living Word of God.
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. - Isaiah 55:10-11
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27
Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. – John 6:65
But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. - Matthew 13:16
Those whose names are written in the Book of Life are adopted children of God and will live with Him forevermore in the new heaven and earth. Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will suffer the second death. (Revelation)
Please see my post 37 for more Scriptures.
To God be the glory!
That is an intriguing bit of exegesis.
Thanks for sharing.
I don’t see Jesus in divine terms, but as a man. And we’ll fall short of any standard without even trying.
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