Joseph Smith's First Vision: Fact or Fiction?

MRM ^ | Wesley Walters

[ejonesie22]

For you, considering how the LDS approaches/changes/alterers/show contempt for the Word of God, I guess it would be.

For those who have accepted the true Glory and Grace of the living Christ, well we laugh for more real and spirirtual reasons...

[ejonesie22]

BTW I noticed you worked around the article I posted...

SOP, by the book, like clockwork.

[Stourme]

I belong to the family of Christians from through out the world.

Oh so you're ashamed of your sect then...a rather cowardly choice you've made IMO.

Why should I give your words any credibility when you don't even have the courage to speak the name of your church?

I don't think the Angels of heaven will be giving you a standing O for your example any time soon.

[ejonesie22]

No, you asked a question, I told you the true answer, for there is no "sect" in Christ's community but one.

Now if you wish to know where I attend church, it is at a Methodist church, a place where I feel very welcome as an Orthodox (Greek) by practice.

That's what differentiates Christians from other so called “faiths”. The love of Christ is universal. We have differences and over the years there have been leaders who sought to take advantage of that for their own, and the evil ones ends. But in the end, the community of Christ cares not what name is on the building, but what spirit is in the heart.

Last night, as I do weekly right now, I sat down with Catholics, Episcopalians, Baptist, Presbyterians, Lutherans and such and discussed God's grace and love as we prepared to go into Prison in a few weeks and share this same message with 40 men thirsting for the word of God.

You seek to foment division where none exists, for we all serve Christ together, with the love and blessing of our various churches and their authorities.

Oddly I have found recently that the follows of the “prophet” Joseph Smith, have been publicly denying others who follow his vision (while oddly “supporting them” in in direct ways) whilst all the while the others clamor to claim the name Mormon, which the head church is running away from..

Perhaps the division amongst the various “Sects” issue lies closer to home for you. If you need advice on that, you can approach any number of ecumenical communities of the true Christ for guidance on peace, love and understanding even in the face of minor differences.

[Tennessee Nana]

I am so glad you are part of the family...

You have creditability with God, and your brothers and sisters in Christ

:)

[ejonesie22]

Thank you.

It is a wonderful family that follows the Truth.

It is funny, having ones credibility questioned by those who believe that God was once a Man, that one must be “certified’ by a mere mortal before seeing the justice of Christ, a “faith” of “seer stones”, “Golden Plates” kingdoms on the moon and other planets and completely non existent civilizations some how totally satiates my hunger for the irony in life...

[Gamecock]

Amen.

I am a devout reformed Christian and a Presbyterian.

I have worshiped with Lutherans, Baptists, Episcopal, etc.

For a couple of reasons we currently worship and teach Sunday School at a Lutheran church.

I eagerly visit a particular Baptist church when the opportunity presents itself.

Where the name of Christ Jesus is proclaimed I will worship.

[ejonesie22]

"Where the name of Christ Jesus is proclaimed I will worship."

Where ever two or more are gathered...

No secret handshakes, no special underwear, no secret ceremonies or hidden doctrines, no lists of who is in or out based on achievement or tithe.

Just open hearts and open arms...

[Gamecock]

No secret handshakes, no special underwear, no secret ceremonies or hidden doctrines, no lists of who is in or out based on achievement or tithe.

Acts 26:26 For the king knows about these things, and to him I speak boldly. For I am persuaded that none of these things has escaped his notice, for this has not been done in a corner.

[colorcountry]

I am a Mormon (by birth and culture). I was born into a sixth generation LDS family, baptized when I was eight, and Temple Married.

I am a Christian. I place my faith in Christ alone, and not in the earthly ordinances that were proclaimed over me by the Mormon priesthood.

I attend an Evangelical Free Community. I worship there as well as Baptist, Assembly of God, Catholic, and Presbyterian congregations. In fact I love worshipping God in Jesus Christ so much that often I will attend two, or three different Christian services on Saturday and Sunday.

There are not the divisions between sects as Mormonism tells you, Sourme. I suggest you visit with some Christians, and there are some wonderful ones here at FR, and you will become enlightened as to our unity in Christ and the ability to focus on Him and not on our own sinful failings over dots and tittles of style in worship.

[ejonesie22]

Amen...

True Christians are proud of their Worship, indeed revel in sharing it with others...

[greyfoxx39]

Christ's community doesn't require membership initiations, doesn't require a yearly explanation of tithes, doesn't exclude family members from weddings, and doesn't claim that Christ's priesthood was given exclusively to mormonism:

These two allusions--the one by the Prophet and the other by the Lord--to the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood not only make clear the fact that the Melchizedek Priesthood was restored in accordance with the promise of John the Baptist when conferring the Aaronic Priesthood, but they make it possible to fix upon the place where, and approximately the time when, the event occurred.

Undoubtedly the place where the ordination was performed was on the banks of the Susquehanna river, in the wilderness between Colesville, in Broome county, New York, and Harmony, in Susquehanna county, Pennsylvania; for it is there the Prophet says the voice of Peter, James and John was heard declaring themselves as "possessing the keys of the kingdom, and of the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times;" for which appearing and declaration there could be no other occasion than the ordination of Oliver and Joseph to the Melchizedek Priesthood in fulfillment of the promises made by John the Baptist. The time at which the ordination took place was evidently between the 15th of May, 1829, and August, 1830 [although this was not written until after 1833]. The last named date is the one under which the Lord so definitely referred to the circumstance of having sent Peter, James and John to ordain Joseph and others to be Apostles, even special witnesses of His name, and unto whom He had committed the keys of the kingdom. Hence the time of the ordination must have been between those two dates.

Link

[Godzilla]

Oh so you're ashamed of your sect then...a rather cowardly choice you've made IMO. Why should I give your words any credibility when you don't even have the courage to speak the name of your church? I don't think the Angels of heaven will be giving you a standing O for your example any time soon.

It is not the name of our church which brings salvation, but the One who brings us that salvation by grace - not by works. As a Christian, I am a member of Christ's catholic (universal) church throughout the ages - all believers who have accepted God's grace through Jesus. It doesn't matter if we choose to worship in a barn, former bar or large cathedral, Christ promised us that where 2 or 3 gather, He is in our midst. As for me, I grew up in a non-denominational church, later was baptized and confirmed as a Catholic and am now attending an Assemblies of God church. I have worshiped with tens of thousands of other Christian men of all denominations at PK conferences. While there are differences, all recognize that it is Christ alone.

I know I am prepared to meet God S - are you? Have you done “all” you can do for salvation? Have you achieved perfection “in this mortal life”? Have you repeated a sin after asking for forgiveness? Have you “procrastinated” the day of your repentance? Have you cleared “all ungodliness” out of your life? Have you maintained all of the ordinance and rules?

Jesus is fully sufficient for me as He promised in the Bible. Is He that for you or only a component?

[ejonesie22]

Interesting isn't it. Tthe divided seek to divide the Community of Christians...

I guess they feel it will give them some power. Sadly, it is doomed to fail for they are not the first...

[Godzilla]

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Col 2: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

[wmfights]

I came to Christ through Free Republic last year ...

Praise the Lord!

Thank you for your testimony.

[Stourme]

It is not the name of our church which brings salvation, but the One who brings us that salvation by grace - not by works.

Salvation comes by the mercy of Jesus Christ. That, we can agree on. However, you must qualify for that mercy. Believing in Christ is the first step toward salvation; not the last.

No matter how "saved" you claim to be; you, like everyone else that's ever lived will stand before the judgment bar of God and the books for your life will be opened and you will be judged by your works.

The attributes that Jesus described on the sermon on the mount were not just suggestions or good advice. They were commandments. God doesn't change for man. He commands men to change for Him.

1 Corinthians 13:2 - 5
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

The whole and complete mission of the Church is to help the members achieve that goal. To help us achieve those Godly attributes. We do this by our service to one another and to the community.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Have you become as a little child? How is your church helping you to progress toward that end? Do you even know what it means?

It's a terrible trick of the devil that he has deceived so many to believe that all they have to do is to profess the name of Jesus and nothing more.

[greyfoxx39]

No matter how "saved" you claim to be; you, like everyone else that's ever lived will stand before the judgment bar of God and the books for your life will be opened and you will be judged by your works.

WHO does the mormon church claim will do the judging that you refer to?

No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith.

From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are"

(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289).

"It's a terrible trick of the devil that he has deceived so many to believe that all they have to do" is obey the commands of Joseph Smith to reach exaltation.

[MHGinTN]

“No matter how “saved” you claim to be; you, like everyone else that’s ever lived will stand before the judgment bar of God and the books for your life will be opened and you will be judged by your works.” You need to read the Bible, more carefully or at least a first time. Those whom the Deliverer has saved are in Him and He will not be standing for judgment at the great White throne. Your mormon indoctrination is showing through. Stop diminishing the Work the Savior accomplished at Calvary. You blaspheme the Holy Spirit by asserting that His presence within the human spirit will not be sufficient and further earnings will be acocunted to determine worthiness. Get thee behind us, satan.

[Stourme]

Your insistence that there are no divisions in "christianity" has no historical context.

Just because today, in America, you can sit down with people of other faiths and manage to not kill each other doesn't mean that the various religions and sects aren't divided.

One example
...many persecuted Anabaptists settled in Münster, Westphalia. Hofmann’s disciples were attracted to the city by dramatic changes that occurred there in the early 1530s. Under the influence of the Reformer Bernhard Rothman, Anabaptist sentiment was strong enough there to elect an Anabaptist majority to the city council in 1533. This was followed, under the direction of Mathijs and John of Leiden, by the expulsion and persecution of all non-Anabaptists and the creation of a messianic kingdom under John of Leiden. The city was surrounded in 1534 by an army of Catholics and Protestants, which perhaps encouraged further reforms, including the common ownership of goods and polygamy, both with the declaration of biblical precedent. The city was captured in 1535, and the Anabaptist leaders were tortured and killed and their bodies hung in steel cages from the steeple of St. Lambert’s church. Source

And another
Although armed hostilities between Catholics and Protestants largely subsided after the 1921 agreement, violence erupted again in the late 1960s; bloody riots broke out in Londonderry in 1968 and in Londonderry and Belfast in 1969. British troops were brought in to restore order, but the conflict intensified as the IRA and Protestant paramilitary groups carried out bombings and other acts of terrorism. This continuing conflict, which lingered into the 1990s, became known as "the Troubles." Source

Harmony between the sects calling themselves "christianity" is a complete myth. Any truce that exists currently is completely due to the fact that genocide became unfashionable and the division of church and state.

The Lutherans slaughtered the baptists by the tens of thousands.

Even in this country, during the early years several people were executed for teaching baptist doctrine.

How about another...
Homosexuality is a grievous sin and I will never support it's practice.

Unfortunately that's not the way some sects see it...
Last month, members of an Atlanta congregation splintered off after their local church leaders decided to allow their ministers to perform gay unions on church property.
Full article

"By their fruits ye shall know them." -Jesus