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Blog Shut Down by 'Christian' Apologist's Threat (RICK WARREN, RICHARD ABANES, KEN SILVA)
Christian NewsWire ^ | 7-28-08 | pastor dustin segers

Posted on 07/28/2008 5:49:39 PM PDT by Terriergal

Blog Shut Down by 'Christian' Apologist's Threat Contact: Pastor Dustin Segers, Coalition of Concerned Bloggers, ChristianResearchNetwork.com, 336-848-7197

MEDIA ADVISORY, July 28 /Christian Newswire/ -- Pastor Dustin Segers submits the following and is available for comment:

How safe are our blogs? That question was raised again when on the evening of July 26, 2008, a popular religious blog was shut down by an Internet service provider. A complaint filed by Christian author and apologist, Richard Abanes, claiming that one article on the religious opinion site, Apprising.org, had slandered him, caused the web host, IPower, to send its publisher, Ken Silva, a 48-hour warning to remove the offending piece or be taken down. In that the piece was not believed to be slander at all, but rather religious and theological opinion, he refused to be forced into censoring his site by Richard Abanes. The site went down.

There are serious implications here for all bloggers, regardless of what sort of blog they publish. Anyone who has a complaint about your views can claim that you have engaged in slander and the ISP Terms of Service usually allow for the companies to remove your website if you don't take the material in question down. The First Amendment means nothing in these cases. ISP's cannot and will not explore the claims of slander and simply notify bloggers to remove whatever is causing the problem. This opens the door for anyone to censor what a blogger writes online.

Everyone who values the right to read and publish blogs on the Internet has a vested interested in the issue. There is growing concern in the blog world over this, and a number of servers are popping up that offer "First Amendment" hosting. These are web hosts which require a court order before they will remove someone's website. Their day has clearly come.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: abanes; blog; bloggers; blogging; blogs; censor; censorship; firstamendment; freedomofreligion; freedomofspeech; kensilva; purposedriven; purposeriven; richardabanes; rickwarren; silva; speech; ybpdlnpl
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Apparently if you're a friend of Rick Warren no one is allowed to disagree with you.

Richard "twinkletoes" Abanes suggests that because he is an 'award-winning, bestselling author/journalist' (having 20 books pubished by major publishing houses) that therefore his public reputation (which apparently cannot be supported by his own writing enough to counteract anything Ken Silva might say - and if you've ever read some of his horribly written blog posts, you wouldn't wonder why - he must have some wonderful editors!)

Therefore he can go ahead and order people to stop offering their opinion on his public stances, because his REPUTATION is of great importance to his livelihood and career.

he demanded that the article "A pastor's assessment of Richard Abanes" be removed and that the ISP order Ken to cease and desist posting any similar articles.

?!

What country does he think he's living in, Red China? Saudi Arabia?

I wonder if this 'reputation' thing can be used by president Bush when the free media publishes defamatory articles against him? How about Rush Limbaugh? Or any number of celebrities who have things published questioning things they have said and done?

WILL RICK WARREN NOT REIN IN HIS FORMER WORSHIP LEADER AN CURRENT APOLOGIST RICHARD ABANES?

He has the wherewithal to do it, but if he doesn't, it tells me that that is all a part of his plan to silence resisters, just like he promotes in his church materials, and for which machiavellian behavior he insists he is not responsible.

1 posted on 07/28/2008 5:49:40 PM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Terriergal

Purpose Driven Censorship.


2 posted on 07/28/2008 5:57:28 PM PDT by mkjessup
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To: Terriergal

It’s just like a worldling to sue someone, ain’t it? Certainly not what the Scripture tells saints of the living God to do with a conflict among ourselves.


3 posted on 07/28/2008 5:57:38 PM PDT by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Terriergal
Good site for updates on this and other matters relating to the "post modern church".

http://www.crossroad.to/ - Kjos Ministries

4 posted on 07/28/2008 5:58:52 PM PDT by Brian S. Fitzgerald
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

Here’s a note from Ken Silva:
http://apprising.org/2008/07/richard-abanes-to-sue-apprising-ministries-over-defamation-libel/

RICHARD ABANES TO SUE APPRISING MINISTRIES OVER DEFAMATION-LIBEL?

By admin on Jul 24, 2008 in Current Issues, General Information, Rick Warren, Southern Baptist Convention

Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?

I say this to your shame Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren, but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers? (1 Corinthians 6:1-6, NASB)

Does A Pastor’s Personal Opinion Really Constitute Slander?

I received the below today from IPower Web which currently is the host company of the website for Apprising Ministries. Since it involves this AM article A PASTOR’S ASSESSMENT OF RICHARD ABANES and he says that he is my brother in Christ it seems best to bring this before the Body of Christ.

As far as I know Richard Abanes has never contacted me personally about taking anything down and/or correcting any perceived factual errors. It’s always been my understanding that asking someone to cease and desist should always be the first step prior to taking action such as he has below.

Please also know that I have absolutely no intention of removing that article, and since the host for AM’s website says, “Failure to delete such content within such period will result in termination of your website”, it does bring up an interesting question. Whose website might Richard Abanes be coming to terminate next?

Hello,

We have been advised by a visitor to your web site (at: HTTP://www.apprising.org) that such web site contains content that is alleged to be untrue, offensive, slanderous, harassing or controversial in nature.

Accordingly, please remove such content within 48 hours of this notice. Failure to delete such content within such period will result in termination of your website. The notice we received is below.

As you may know, we are a web hosting company. We are not responsible for the content or links posted by our customers who create and place content on websites that we host. We further do not “monitor” the websites that we host or prescreen the content placed by customers on their sites. However, when we become aware of allegations of improper activity by one of our customers using a hosted site, which would be a violation of our Terms of Service (TOS) governing the web sites, we take such situations seriously, investigate promptly, and take appropriate action.

Should you have further questions, please contact us.

Sincerely,
Customer Support Team

_________________________________________________________________

To: LEGAL DEPT. IPOWERWEB
FR: Richard Abanes
RE: Defamation-Libel - IPOWER hosted website, apprising.org

To whom it may concern,

Ken Silva, owner and operator of apprising.org, which is hosted by IPOWERWEB.NET, has engaged in posting libelous, defamatory statements on his website about me — i.e., Richard Abanes.

By way of introduction, I am an award-winning, bestselling author/journalist with twenty books published by major publishing houses. My public reputation, therefore is of paramount importance to my livelihood and career. Mr. Silva, with no regard for factual information, has posted on his apprising.org website:

- defamatory accusations,
- baseless commentary that impugns my personal/professional integrity, and
- factual errors about my published materials.

I am writing you in response to this libel that has been hosted by IPOWERWEB.NET/IPOWERWEB.COM in the form of statements found at apprising.org and direct your attention to the IPOWERWEB.NET “Acceptable Use Policy (AUP).” as found at http://ipowerweb.net/legal/legal_aup.bml. It reads:

“Prohibited Uses. Users may not: . . . b. Utilize the Services in connection with any illegal activity or activity otherwise prohibited by this AUP. Without limiting the general application of this rule, Users may not: . . . Utilize the Services for or in connection with any activities or content determined by IPOWER, in its sole discretion, to be related to gambling, adult, obscene or pornographic materials or content, harassment, defamation, libel and hate speech or other offensive speech or content, or for any unlawful purpose . . .”

“c. Utilize the Services in connection with any tortious or actionable activity. Without limiting the general application of this rule, Users and Users may not: i. Utilize the Services to publish or disseminate information that (A) constitutes slander, libel or defamation. . . .”

Ken Silva, owner/operator of apprising.org, has violated these above stated restrictions — specifically, in his article titled “A PASTOR’S ASSESSMENT OF RICHARD ABANES,” found at the URL
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2005/09/a_pastors_asses.html.

Before turning this situation over to my attorneys, I respectfully request that IPOWERWEB.NET / IPOWERWEB.COM remove this particular article from it’s servers, and notify Ken Silva to cease and desist the posting similar articles. I have no wish to name IPOWERWEB.NET / IPOWERWEB.COM in a legal suit, and hope to resolve this issue as quickly and easily as possible.

Please feel free to contact me at your earliest convenience. I hope to have this issue resolved as soon as possible.

Cordially,
Richard Abanes


5 posted on 07/28/2008 6:03:20 PM PDT by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

Dear Manfred: thank you. This man Abanes needs to be put in stocks and held up to public ridicule...
... for being a part of Rick Warren’s “church” that is.

As for attempting to inhibit freedom of religious speech, he will find the blogosphere is not kind. Starting now.

May all false Christians be revealed, Lord God. Especially the antiChrist agenda of Rick Warren, his associates and his former worship leader.


6 posted on 07/28/2008 6:14:47 PM PDT by IreneE (Live for nothing or die for something.)
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To: Brian S. Fitzgerald

I think we are headed for home church type in the coming years. I hate to think that Spirit-led churches in America will have to go underground like they do in China. Likely, they won’t have more than 20 members a church.

Wait and see...


7 posted on 07/28/2008 6:32:54 PM PDT by Buddygirl (Jesus said, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father except through Me.)
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To: mkjessup

HILARIOUS! Laugh out loud funny!


8 posted on 07/28/2008 6:34:03 PM PDT by raynearhood ("As for you, when wide awake you are asleep, and asleep when you write..." - Jerome)
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To: IreneE

I agree. I first became aware of Rick Warren when all of Houston, it seemed, was swept up in 40 days of madness 5 or 6 years ago. A raving Warren fanatic pushed a copy of “The Purpose Driven Life” into my hands - it was golden! 2 pastors at my church were big fans of Warren, so I read the book - and wept.

I wrote up a critique of it, at the request of a friend from another church nearby. http://menofhonorministry.org/Discipleship/ThePurposeDrivenLife.htm

I reviewed this with my pastor, who blew it off, saying it was “sloppy” because Rick had been teaching this stuff for 20 years and just threw the book together. At that time, it had sold 20 million copies. The publishing industry is pretty brutal. Sloppy doesn’t make 20 million pressings.

“The Purpose Driven Church”, he said, is “much more tightly written”. Rather than calling these books “biblically sound” or “theologically unsound”, he called them “sloppy” and “tight”. sigh

Took me a while to find a copy of PDC. It’s worse - in many ways - than PDL.
http://brogdensmuse.menofhonorministry.org/Apologetics/PDC.htm

I had the PDL review on the church men’s ministry site (http://menofhonorministry.org/) for a year, until I told to take it down by the pastors. But I was not asked to remove my critique of “Wild at Heart” http://menofhonorministry.org/Discipleship/WildatHeart.pdf

Warren needs to be protected. Those who protect him are complicit in Warrens “stealth network” attack on the church.


9 posted on 07/28/2008 6:35:11 PM PDT by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: IreneE
As for attempting to inhibit freedom of religious speech, he will find the blogosphere is not kind. Starting now.

Oh, yeah, he's gonna get it.
10 posted on 07/28/2008 6:44:24 PM PDT by raynearhood ("As for you, when wide awake you are asleep, and asleep when you write..." - Jerome)
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To: Terriergal

Might I suggest posting this in “News and Activism” with speech and firstamendment as keywords. Abanes will really get his due there.


11 posted on 07/28/2008 6:46:14 PM PDT by raynearhood ("As for you, when wide awake you are asleep, and asleep when you write..." - Jerome)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

Thanks for the links to your reviews of PDL and Wild at Heart.

I read both books years ago.

PDL was difficult to navigate after the first nine or ten chapters. I never investigated why, just put the book aside. Something in my spirit did not agree. I’m glad you took the time to critique it. Your critique is quite good and well grounded in Scripture. It seems we have so many “success” books in Christian literature, that it is a mere reflection of the secular mania involving self help books.

As you say, God desires obedience more than anything. For only a person turned toward Him and saved by faith in Jesus Christ can do His will.

Years ago, my wife heard about Wild at Heart and got me a copy. She thought I would like it. I have to say, that is the worst book I have ever read in my life, and I read a lot!

I remember little now, but my disgust at the author’s tortured reasoning and stupid, vapid examples were palpable at the time. My wife was very surprised at my reaction. I told her—I never want to be like that “man”-the author.

That book was like being waterboarded—torture. No rhyme, no reason, just stupidity, chapter after chapter.

I have found that the Christian literature business of the last thirty years has been a source of major disappointment. Each author thinks that somehow they alone and their life experiences qualify them to tell everyone else how to live the Christian life. Quite frankly, few of these authors have suffered for Christ in any real way. Some of these authors have written 20,30,40 books! Good thing they were born, huh?

After almost forty years of following Christ, I value more the humble servant who in obedience lives out their daily lives as a testimony to who is their Lord, reflected in their speech and their actions. Those are the ones you can learn something from.

The self help wunderkind, I have no need for.


12 posted on 07/28/2008 7:29:39 PM PDT by exit82 (People get the government they deserve--and they are about to get it --in spades.)
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To: Terriergal

Richard “twinkletoes” Abanes

Why do you call him twinkeltoes?


13 posted on 07/28/2008 8:31:35 PM PDT by restornu
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To: Brian S. Fitzgerald

Berit has some good stuff!


14 posted on 07/28/2008 8:35:11 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

Yup the site just went back up. He removed it from his old host and moved it to a new one who won’t be buffaloed by ex-broadway dancers who have nothing better to do than whine all over cyberspace that someone disagrees with him.


15 posted on 07/28/2008 8:36:36 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: IreneE

hear hear Irene. you said it!!

Let the tomato slinging begin!


16 posted on 07/28/2008 8:37:23 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: Buddygirl

I think you are right — that is coming, I am pretty sure.


17 posted on 07/28/2008 8:37:52 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: raynearhood

Did someone say something funny?


18 posted on 07/28/2008 8:38:15 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

>[PDL]I reviewed this with my pastor, who blew it off, saying it was “sloppy” because Rick had been teaching this stuff for 20 years and just threw the book together.
>“The Purpose Driven Church”, he said, is “much more tightly written”.

That’s frightening. The PDC came off more obviously WRONG scripturally on first read than PDL did!


19 posted on 07/28/2008 8:40:36 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: raynearhood; Admin Moderator
Might I suggest posting this in “News and Activism” with speech and firstamendment as keywords. Abanes will really get his due there.

hm... not sure how I can move it.. or whether the admins will consent to do so?

20 posted on 07/28/2008 8:41:59 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: exit82

I loved your post - thanks!


21 posted on 07/28/2008 8:42:38 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: restornu

he’s a former broadway dancer. Danced in A Chorus Line, DreamGirls, and some other piece I forget off the top of my head.

Not sure why he considers his broadway dancing career relevant but he mentions it on his site.


22 posted on 07/28/2008 8:44:22 PM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: exit82

I think the last great Christian apologist/writers of the last 100 years or so were CS Lewis and Francis Schaeffer...the rest pale in comparison!


23 posted on 07/28/2008 9:12:30 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; george76; ...
There are serious implications here for all bloggers, regardless of what sort of blog they publish. Anyone who has a complaint about your views can claim that you have engaged in slander and the ISP Terms of Service usually allow for the companies to remove your website if you don't take the material in question down.

24 posted on 07/28/2008 9:28:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: Terriergal; restornu; All

McCain, Obama to Attend Forum at Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church

 

‘This is a critical time for our nation, and the American people deserve to hear both candidates speak from the heart.’

Presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama will make their first joint appearance at a public forum with the Rev. Rick Warren on Aug. 16 at California’s Saddleback Church.

“The primaries proved that Americans care deeply about the faith, values, character and leadership convictions of candidates as much as they do about the issues,” Warren said in a news release. “This is a critical time for our nation, and the American people deserve to hear both candidates speak from the heart – without interruption – in a civil and thoughtful format absent the partisan ‘gotcha’ questions that typically produce heat instead of light.”

Republican McCain and Democrat Obama will appear separately to discuss what Warren describes as the “main area of focus” – AIDS, poverty, human rights and environment.

Tom Minnery, senior vice president of Focus on the Family Action, said that while those topics are important, he hopes the candidates will also address the issues that are on the minds of the majority of Christians – the sanctity of human life and marriage.

“It will be interesting to see the direction that Rick Warren takes these interviews,” Minnery said. “I am not certain that he will get into deeply religious issues with either of these candidates and that would be disappointing. While the issues of HIV/AIDS and climate are interesting, any secular reporter could ask about those.  He ought to ask questions that go deep to the heart of Christianity.”

Minnery said it’s not enough for the candidates to address their remarks in Christian rhetoric; they must explain their voting records.

“One of (Obama’s) strongest positions was against the right for a child, which has survived an abortion to be guaranteed life,” Minnery said. “And (McCain) does say that he supports God’s institution of marriage, but he will not say anything very strongly about marriage.”

Regardless of the forum’s outcome, Minnery is pleased the candidates have chosen to make their first joint appearance in a church.

“That says to me they understand how important men and women of faith are to their chances of winning the White House,” he said.

FOR MORE INFORMATION
Visit Saddleback’s Web site to learn more about the event. Watch the event live online at 5 p.m. PST on Aug. 16, 2008.

LINK to Article: http://www.citizenlink.org/CLtopstories/A000007900.cfm#


25 posted on 07/28/2008 9:30:11 PM PDT by XR7
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To: Terriergal

I tend to agree with this ruling. Apprising.org is all about condemning Christians who don’t agree 100 percent with the guy who publishes that site. Tiring. Seems he’s gone overboard in his slander against other Christians.


26 posted on 07/28/2008 10:03:41 PM PDT by Theo (Global warming "scientists." Pro-evolution "scientists." They're both wrong.)
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To: exit82

Thank you for your post #12. It was a joy to read and quite wise and truthful.:)


27 posted on 07/28/2008 11:50:11 PM PDT by 444Flyer (Marriage=1 man+1 woman! Vote "YES" on Prop 8, amend the Calif. State Constitution this November.)
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To: Terriergal
Post #2

Purpose Driven Censorship.

A nearly perfect play on words. When I saw it, I made a gutteral "YAWP!" kind of laughing noise and almost sprayed the screen with my after dinner coffee.
28 posted on 07/29/2008 3:15:31 AM PDT by raynearhood ("As for you, when wide awake you are asleep, and asleep when you write..." - Jerome)
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To: Terriergal
Danced in A Chorus Line, DreamGirls, and some other piece... Not sure why he considers his Broadway dancing career relevant but he mentions it on his site.

Well, one thing that we've established about "Purpose Driven Churches" is that they attempt to appeal to sinners' emotions and desires, instead of evangelizing the Truth and allowing the Holy Spirit to do the work of convicting the sinners' conscience. A Chorus Line/Broadway career appeals to "a certain" group of sinner. I'm not trying to be funny, I seriously think that this may be a ploy to get effeminate gay guys to pay attention.
29 posted on 07/29/2008 3:22:52 AM PDT by raynearhood ("As for you, when wide awake you are asleep, and asleep when you write..." - Jerome)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg; P-Marlowe

I want to see the article.

Perhaps it is defamatory and libelous. It’s hard to assess that without reading it.

There are libel laws.


30 posted on 07/29/2008 4:09:45 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: Terriergal
Through the magic of Google caching, here's the article, now removed from the website.
31 posted on 07/29/2008 4:11:42 AM PDT by LouD
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To: Terriergal

btt


32 posted on 07/29/2008 4:53:05 AM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg
So this person threatened to sue a fellow Christian in a Court of Law?

Hmm...my Bible suggests that such disputes are to handled in House and be adjudicated by Christians, not some man in a woman's robe...

Further evidence that the Warrenites are not particularly bound or even bother to pay any attention to the clear instructions of Scripture.

And yet, there is a horde of so called Christians who claim Warren is some sort of Guru...can they not see the danger in that view?

33 posted on 07/29/2008 4:58:05 AM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Romans 10.10/Eze 11.2)
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To: mkjessup

Purpose driven Douchebaggery. Rick Warren is the Sandler of Christianity.


34 posted on 07/29/2008 5:28:57 AM PDT by steve8714 (Curtis Strange ruined a man better than himself.)
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To: Terriergal

Their tactics are no different that the $cientologists.


35 posted on 07/29/2008 5:30:38 AM PDT by TommyDale (I) (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
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To: Buddygirl

Buddygirl, I agree with you completely! It is already happening in some areas, where every church in the area has succumbed to false doctrine. I would rather stay home and study rather than “assemble” with heathen.


36 posted on 07/29/2008 5:32:24 AM PDT by TommyDale (I) (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
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To: Terriergal

I can’t remember the last time I heard Rick Warren utter the word “Christ”. Who is his God? Rick Warren?


37 posted on 07/29/2008 5:32:50 AM PDT by montag813
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To: Terriergal
"Not sure why he considers his broadway dancing career relevant but he mentions it on his site."

To "reach out" to the gay activist and entertainment community for their dollars?

38 posted on 07/29/2008 5:37:12 AM PDT by TommyDale (I) (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
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To: montag813

Warren has done two shows on Fox News that I know of, and not once did he mention Jesus or Salvation. What exactly is Warren’s ‘purpose’?


39 posted on 07/29/2008 5:40:01 AM PDT by TommyDale (I) (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
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To: Terriergal

Thanks for answering I know many here swear by his research!


40 posted on 07/29/2008 6:06:54 AM PDT by restornu
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To: padre35

It is sad. Too many professing saints of the living God are asleep regarding spiritual Truth, trusting sinful man to lead them without checking the Scriptures to see if they be led rightly. In the end, such will be without excuse.


41 posted on 07/29/2008 6:14:21 AM PDT by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

Exactly, why what the Warrenites are teaching is not looked at through a Biblical Lense (or backstop) leaves well meaning people wide open to being led along the wide road.

IMO that is very dangerous for them.


42 posted on 07/29/2008 6:24:28 AM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Romans 10.10/Eze 11.2)
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To: Theo
Seems he’s gone overboard in his slander against other Christians.

If the author of the blog had some harsh things to say about Abanes and Warren, then he certainly was not slandering CHRISTIANS.

43 posted on 07/29/2008 6:27:22 AM PDT by L,TOWM (If the GOP is this desperate to lose, who am I to stand in their way?)
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To: LouD

Thank you so much for posting the article (which I have now safely saved) so we can all read it!


44 posted on 07/29/2008 9:05:36 AM PDT by jan in Colorado (For Barack Hussein Obama TRUTH FILE see my homepage!)
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To: XR7
“main area of focus” – AIDS, poverty, human rights and environment.

WHAT??? These aren't Christians or most Americans main areas of focus or concern.

This is the new "religion" and Rick Warren is the false prophet leading the way!

45 posted on 07/29/2008 9:14:03 AM PDT by jan in Colorado (For Barack Hussein Obama TRUTH FILE see my homepage!)
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To: Gamecock

Have you seen this?


46 posted on 07/29/2008 9:26:04 AM PDT by jan in Colorado (For Barack Hussein Obama TRUTH FILE see my homepage!)
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To: jan in Colorado; DocRock; del4hope; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; jude24; Ottofire; ...

YBPDLN ping List Ping

Thanks to Terriergal and Jan in CO for bringing this to my attention.


47 posted on 07/29/2008 9:28:20 AM PDT by Gamecock (The question is not, Am I good enough to be a Christian? rather Am I good enough not to be?)
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To: TommyDale; Buddygirl; Manfred the Wonder Dawg; Terriergal
I have witnessed firsthand the fruit of the PDL movement. Weak willed, milk not meat, watered down, compromising with sin, self-focused rather than Christ-focused Christians at best...and at worst, non-believers who attend the churches because they are “non-offensive” and it makes them feel good to go to “church” and being deceived that they are right with the Lord because of this.

I have a friend I have been witnessing to for years, who started attending a PDL church because, as he says, they never talk about sin and the services are a lot of fun. As I continue to share the gospel and the need to repent of our sins and turn to Christ for forgiveness, he just says “I like my church's message better.”...sigh...(This is the same church that on Sundays will occasionally have cars from dealerships parked out front with sales stickers advertising the cars and dealership like they do at Costco. We have some friends who left the church because of this practice.) I'm sure everyone can share similar stories and experiences.

2 Peter 3:14-18

48 posted on 07/29/2008 10:15:05 AM PDT by 444Flyer (Marriage=1 man+1 woman! Vote "YES" on Prop 8, amend the Calif. State Constitution this November.)
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To: 444Flyer; Buddygirl; Manfred the Wonder Dawg; Terriergal

I have personally witness destruction of congregations from this movement. Not to mention that I was summarily dismissed from my local church because I refused to drink the koolaid.

I highly recommend James Sundquist’s book, “Who’s Driving The Purpose Driven Church?” to anyone who has not read it yet.


49 posted on 07/29/2008 10:32:55 AM PDT by TommyDale (I) (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
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To: restornu; Terriergal
Thanks for answering I know many here swear by his research!

Resty, i think you're confusing Richard Abanes with pollster George Barna.

Barna is a member of Willow Creek church in the Chicago area. Abanes is/was a 'worship leader' at Saddleback Church in California.

Easy to make the confusion, the churches are similar in all of the wrong ways.

50 posted on 07/29/2008 12:00:22 PM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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