Posted on 09/05/2008 3:14:14 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
No thanks, I don’t care to debate our religions. I don’t need to because I don’t have a problem with your beliefs. I respect you for following god and recognizing Jesus as our savior, and I respect that you love your denomination, in fact, I have even fought for your right to do so. I just wish that you were more tolerant and less insulting.
What is the substitutionary atonement?
Does Jesus teach that once you are forgiven of your sins, if you are not perfect and sinless from there on in, all your past sins will be lumped together in a big wad and dumped on your head...again?
I’d like to see the actual Bible reference for that. _________________________________________________
There’s Bible references about something else happening to ours sins...and how God “deals” with us...
He has not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. Psalm 102:10-12
Who is a God like You, pardoning iniquity And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage? He does not retain His anger forever, Because He delights in mercy. He will again have compassion on us, And will subdue our iniquities. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea. You will give truth to Jacob and mercy to Abraham, Which You have sworn to our fathers from days of old. Micah 7:18-20
Also...
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” And Nathan said to David, “The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die. 2 Samuel 12:13
Lo, for my own welfare I had great bitterness; It is You who has kept my soul from the pit of nothingness, For You have cast all my sins behind Your back. Isaiah 38:17
I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins. Isaiah 43:25
For behold, the stone that I have set before Joshua; on one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave an inscription on it,’ declares the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. Zechariah 3:9
Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Hebrews 9:26
I am 42 and joined the church in 1999.
The fact that the Temple curtain was rent while Christ was on the Cross was a significant miracle as well as a MAJOR DEMARCATION POINT IN THE CHRISTIAN TIME LINE.
Yet, the Book of Mormon makes NO note of this Covenantal shift.
IN fact, the Book of Mormon is a mishmash of Old and New Covenants.
This is a dangerous practice and set of beliefs in the End Times.
We cannot pretend we are under the Old Covenant, as Joseph Smith and friends did with their Office of the Old Testament Prophet, with their practice of Old Testament polygamy and their threats to people who left the Mormon faith of retribution by death.
But the fact that the Book Of Mormon, reportedly a version of history that takes place during a course of time before and after the Cross, makes not Covenantal differentiation is glaring giveaway that the source of the Mormon gospel is not God but Satan and a doctrine of demons.
I have no interest in arguing, it is just that the facts about Mormonism are so clear, and it saddens me because I love the Mormons I know.
It is the Betty Crocker/American Family Values part of Mormonism that is appealing but yet, this is not the Cross.
We cannot worship at the idol of American Family Values or the American Dream even, as true Christians, we only can worship at the Cross by taking up our cross and dying daily to self as we follow Jesus.
I just wish the Mormons on FR would get it that we are not trying to be “mean” to them — but only take our time here because we are AFRAID FOR THEIR SOULS. Because we know that those who “NO LONGER LOVE THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD” will be deluded by false prophets and false teachers.
In a spirit of Love wrapped in Truth, I just implore the Mormons on FR to really listen and realize what trouble anyone comes under when they add to, twist or present a “restoration” of the Gospel's “foundation that has already been laid” ... and cannot be “restored” or “laid again.”
It is a cry to the Mormons to just consider the truth of God's Eternal Word — that Mormonism contradicts. I write this in love because Jesus says He wills it that all should be saved (but the road is narrow and few take it.)0
I implore the Mormons on FR to get past our bickering and just look squarely at the very foundation of the Mormon faith and see that Smith could not be hearing from the Holy Spirit what he reports he did.
The Holy Spirit never contradicts Himself and never contradicts the Word of God. This is the basic reason that Mormonism is not from the Lord.
I speak in love to the Mormon Freepers, please just hear without taking offense. We are only writing because we want to see you in heaven as it is obvious that Joseph Smith did not “tremble at God's holy word” but instead did not test the spirits of the Angel Moroni but listened to a new gospel message that added on things to the Gospel and to the foundation that was already laid.
These acts themselves disqualify Smith from salvation and make him a false teacher of false doctrine that Jesus warns and warns and warns against.
PLEASE HEAR US MORMON FREEPERS!
Thank you, Freeplancer.
Not sure where I insulted you, but I grant you your right to believe it.
Here’s my problem, and it’s the same as many a poster here on the subject of Mormonism. Respectfully, I ask you how a Mormon can reconcile the beliefs put forth in the BOM with the Holy Bible?
In other words, when Joseph Smith claimed that he was greater than Jesus, how can a Mormon who believes the Holy Bible stand by it or justify it? Who’s the greatest? To me, the claim is a slap in the face as a Christian.
When God professes to be The Almighty, is He right or wrong? I ask because I don’t understand how Mormons can believe that God ATTAINED godhood. To whose status (or what god’s status) did HE, GOD ALMIGHTY, have to attain?
You see the problem I have?
I’m just looking for a straight answer and, believe me, there’s no insult towards you or ANY Mormon. NONE. YOU ARE LOVED AND YOUR SOUL IS SOUGHT AFTER BY JESUS CHRIST.
Please, if you will, relate how the Mormon church answers the claims put forth above. I would love to know what is actually believed because when I ask - when I post verbatim quotes of Mormons or Joseph Smith himself - I only get some ugly response.
Your post IS appreciated, Freeplancer.
Kind Regards,
BR
“I just wish that you were more tolerant and less insulting.”
I’ve thought about your statement, Freeplancer.
At what cost should a person be “more tolerant and less insulting”?
At the cost of thousand precious souls? One hundred? Ten?
Even one?
At what cost should I say, “You know, I think I’ll keep the Truth to myself”?
‘Til the day I die, I hope I speak the Truth to YOU and to everyone else.
Let me ask you, will you at least try to see what we all are getting at? Will you try to answer the questions and put the Holy Bible up against the BOM just for a minute?
If you can’t do it, will you at least ask yourself why it’s too difficult to do so? If your belief is in Jesus Christ alone, it should not be hard to do at all.
Will you try to look to us as your friends who are trying to point you to Truth out of love for our Lord, who commands us so, out of love for you, and not your enemy?
If you can’t defend it (Mormonism), why not give a look at Jesus alone?
You state that you were of age when you joined the Mormon church. Did you have any religious background before then?
Finally, what does “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me,” mean in the Mormon way of thinking?
Thanks for any and all responses, Freeplancer.
BR
Your post is beautiful and full of truth.
I certainly am NOT Jesus, and never claimed to be anything within a million miles of Him.
I will not argue the fact that we all have our faults. Of course we do. And I definitely do NOT hate Mormons, or anyone else for that matter. I do, however, believe with all my heart that Mormons have been completely misled by Joseph Smith and others of your leaders.
I have been trying for months now simply to understand how otherwise intelligent people can believe as you do. The Bible is not to be corrupted by either taking from or adding to it. Which is EXACTLY what Joseph Smith has done. I just cannot understand how people can believe him and his revised “Bible” rather than the Bible itself.
Thank you for your response. I’m out of here for tonight, but will check back in the morning.
Oh absolutely!! It has nothing to do with the fact that Joseph Smith was demonstrably a fraud, nothing all.
And really nothing to do with your sour comment calling the other posters cowards and a mob, I promise.
It certainly couldn’t be because this an “Open” forum where you might have to defend yourself, no chance.
Guess that leaves just one thing...that telling you that you can salve your hurt feelings under the shelter of a restricted forum where others will hold your hand and sing along is the only reason I am here. Of course!!
Thanks. I meant every word.
“I have been trying for months now simply to understand how otherwise intelligent people can believe as you do.”
You were able to say what’s been on the tip of my tongue, but I could not manage to bring forth for the longest!
You are a little too mouthy for a new guy. I won’t be baited by you. Get lost
If you have a problem with the BoM, that is fine. I can’t change your mind so I won’t try. However, we beleive the bible is the word of God and it stands alone also. Every other year, we base all of our sunday schools and lessons on the Bible. The BoM does not replace the bible and I believe in the King James version of the Bible. I will never argue anyone into seeing my point of view so that is why I don’t understand why the mormon haters use that as their logic, “they are just trying to save non beleivers” from terrible Mormanism. Nothing says I want to help you by shouting insults at you.
If you believe in the truth of the Bible, or God’s Word, then, my only question is, why do you need the Book of Mormon?
“I have been trying for months now simply to understand how otherwise intelligent people can believe as you do.”
Why are you spending months trying to understand? Why not try to figure out real problems that might actually affect you like trying to figure out why people use abotion as birth control, or why homosexuals are trying to take over our society and change our laws, etc???? Channel your energies into other endeavors instead of making a fellow conservative feel attacked and picked on and making him defend his faith. It rude and uncalled for.
If you believe in freedom of religion, then why do you need to ask me that? Why do you feel such a moral superiority? Unbelievable.
Like I said, if your skin is too thin, maybe you should stay home.
That’s right, insult people and then call them thin skinned when they reply. Keep up the great work, you are a credit to mankind.
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