Posted on 09/07/2008 7:43:46 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953
[Luke 20:27-40] Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him, Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children. And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. Last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. Then certain of the scribes answering said, Master, thou hast well said. And after that they durst not ask him any question at all.
Our Lord is speaking of the resurrection and indeed He is the God of the living......in the resurrection. All men will be resurrected and at that point they will all again....be alive. The difference being.....some will then experience the second death from which there is no return [Revelation 20:14-15].
The author of Hebrews talks about the New Jerusalem peopled with the spirits of just men made perfect.
[Hebrews 12:22-23] But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.
Do these verses teach that there are immortal souls in heaven? No. These verse speak of man's spirit which does return to God at death: [Ecclesiastes 12:7] Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Man's spirit is a complete detailed record of all that he is.....or was, and a converted man indeed sees his spirit returning to the Lord at death. [I Thessalonians 5:23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The personality, experiences, accumulated knowledge and each man's character is what is stored in the human spirit.
[Ecclesiastes 3:21] Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? It is the spirit in man which distinguishes us from our animal friends.....and it does return to Him who gave it.
[Genesis 2:7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. "Breath of life": Strong's #5397. nshamah (nesh-aw-maw')a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. blast, that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.
And man became a living soul. In other words.....man does not have a soul......man is a soul. Man has a spirit and that spirit returns to God at death.
[Acts 7:59-60] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
[Numbers 27:16] Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation.
"The spirits of just men made perfect" are human spirits that contain everything that is known about any individual who has ever lived who has God's Spirit awaiting the resurrection. The "Heavenly Jerusalem" is where all of the spirits of God's people from time immemorial are kept..... awaiting the coming of the Messiah [I Thessalonians 5:23].
Note that in all creation, death is the food of life. Birth, death and resurrection is part of God's original plan. It is illustrated in the first three verses of Genesis(creation, destruction, restoration) , an interesting way to start God's book.
At least the is what I was told once does anyone know the scripture reference for this doctrine?
Since you are totally convinced that honest discourse about God's Holy Word is needless I have saluted all others to read my reply. I'm sorry you will not receive the edification presented.
Christ discusses Hell and that if you are not saved by faith in Him, that is where you will be.
My first question to this statement would be "Chapter & Verse.....please?
Hell is a very deep subject. LOL. Let's look at the word and see what it means. There are four individual words in the scriptures translated as Hell. The first is the Hebrew, "Sheol": Strong's #7585. sh'owl (sheh-ole') Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates. As you can see....Strong's indicates that the word is identical in meaning to the Greek word "Hades". In all cases where Sheol or Hades is used in scripture the words simply mean......the grave. Yes, we are all going there [Hebrews 9:27].....saved....or not saved.
The second Greek word translated "Hell" is Tartaros and it only appears one time in scripture [II Peter 2:4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment. Hell: Strong's #5020. tartaroo (tar-tar-o'-o) from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment. There is one other place in scripture that implies Tartaros but does not call it that and it is [Jude 6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
So far.....three of the defining terms for Hell in scripture are indicative of a dark, dry, gloomy place. This does not square too well with your normal Sunday School definition of the place....does it?
Let's now look at the fourth word (Greek third) and we'll begin to see where all this nonsense about Hell really started.
Gehenna is translated Hell twelve times in scripture and not once is it describing the place where most "Christians" and other folks seem to believe it is. Here is a good description of Gehenna! This vile place was where the indigent and criminal had their dead bodies disposed of and during the first century it still held the stigma of Israelite child sacrifice [II Kings 23:10] that occurred in the Old Testament.
As the link says.....Our Lord used it as an analogy to the Lake of Fire spoken of in [Revelation 19:20][20:13-15]. Unfortunately the main strean church has taken its meaning and has invented a whole new place where bad people are supposed to go when they die. Poppycock!
I could certainly respond to everything else you have stated in your post but I have noticed something strange. You have not included one scripture to back up your position. I find this to be the case many times on this forum. People tend to huff and puff but when it gets down to the bare facts.......they cannot produce. So I will leave it there........since you're not reading this anyway.
[Matthew 6:9-13] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen
No, I am just not here to be your personal reference guide to the Scriptures. You can discuss what Scripture says without putting down every single chapter and verse. People like you tend to want to draw others into huge debates when one simple question was asked.
The question that was asked, is actually the title of this thread. In my initial response, I did cite Second Corithians and the verse: Absent from the body, present with the Lord.
And that is where we believers will be.
Now I am done with you. Please save comments for other people who want to have fun arguing, I don’t want to deal with you.
LOLOLOLOL
ROFLMAO!
In one post you demand evidence but in the post just before, you castigate the posting of too many links that nobody will read.
Then.....you got me.....cause I have not heard of it.
As an aside......most folks that just post links and nothing else usually cannot debate the issues anyway. If they happen to be Roman Catholic they have another disadvantage in that their theology is skewed.....and doesn't make a lick sense to begin with. So....discussing anything with them is rather pointless anyway.
Some Protestants, at least.....wrong as they are also, at least have eliminated the idolatry from their theology and can approach the scriptures in a more Christian manner.
I could keep certain people from posting to my subjects by calling it a caucus but that is not what this is about. It is about discussion talking ding ding. If you want to go to the closed minded folks go to a caucus and see what happens.
If not then thin skinned people will get their feelings hurt.
Go and play with the children if you have thin skin.
My skin is tough. I’m pointing out your hypocrisy.
Go play with the children if you can’t post without hypocrisy.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
I only returned his fire.
I don’t care who started it. Keep the thread on the issues.
Put your fingers where you mouth is and show me.
It’s stuff like this that has caused me and many like me to abandon this forum for the most part. Everytime I wander back on here for a glance at the threads, it’s more and more unappealing, and a lot like an 8th grade schoolyard.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.
Posters who are bothered by the brisk and often contentious debate on “open” threads should stay on the “caucus” “devotional” “prayer” or “ecumenical” threads.
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