Just when the furor over Nancy Pelosi's comments on Meet the Press had subsided...
Posted on 09/08/2008 10:07:42 AM PDT by NYer
On today's Meet the Press, Barack Obama's Catholic running mate Joe Biden is confronted with the same question asked of Nancy Pelosi two weeks ago.
His response is not a surprise to those who know Joe Biden's record on abortion and his attempts to reconcile it with his Catholic faith.
Malooly said he won't be surprised if the media ask him about the best-known member of his new diocese -- Sen. Joe Biden, who is running for vice president.
Biden, a 35-year member of the Senate, has said he believes in Catholic teachings on the sanctity of life but has often voted in favor of abortion rights.
"I'm anxious to have a chance to speak with him as I would any politician," Malooly said at a farewell reception in Parkville, Md., last Sunday.
He'll seek to understand Biden's point of view, much as he did with Maryland politicians. And Malooly said that he will share the scope of Catholic pro-life teachings with Biden.
A sizable number of Catholics hold beliefs that go against church teachings, the bishop said.
"I have to work on everybody, not just Joe Biden," Malooly said.
Biden has been invited to the installation, but as of late Friday, Biden's staff still was trying to work out the candidate's schedule so he could attend.
"I'd say, "Look, I know when it begins for me." It's a personal and private issue. For me, as a Roman Catholic, I'm prepared to accept the teachings of my church."
The old mantra: "I personally believe..." Being "prepared to accept" is a reluctant phrasing.
"But let me tell you. There are an awful lot of people of great confessional faiths--Protestants, Jews, Muslims and others--who have a different view. They believe in God as strongly as I do. They're intensely as religious as I am religious. They believe in their faith and they believe in human life, and they have differing views as to when life--I'm prepared as a matter of faith to accept that life begins at the moment of conception. But that is my judgment. For me to impose that judgment on everyone else who is equally and maybe even more devout than I am seems to me is inappropriate in a pluralistic society."
Same argument: "I believe one thing. Other people believe another thing." Joe Biden is willing to sacrifice what he believes are human lives because other people believe they are not human lives (or believe they may kill them). That's really his position, in essence. And look at the example he uses to defend it next:
"And I know you get the push back, "Well, what about fascism?" Everybody, you know, you going to say fascism's all right? Fascism isn't a matter of faith. No decent religious person thinks fascism is a good idea."
This is the most incredible part of his defense. He claims that "Fascism isn't a matter of faith" but claims that abortion is a matter of faith! But this is the truth: the evil of abortion is not a matter of faith. It is a matter of reason. This is what must be taught him, publicly. (I further expand my commentary on his "fascism argument" below.)Tom Brokaw, to his credit, goes for the throat with his next question:
Brokaw: "But if you, you believe that life begins at conception, and you've also voted for abortion rights..."
Biden: "No, what a voted against curtailing the right, criminalizing abortion. I voted against telling everyone else in the country that they have to accept my religiously based view that it's a moment of conception. There is a debate in our church, as Cardinal Egan would acknowledge, that's existed. Back in "Summa Theologia," when Thomas Aquinas wrote "Summa Theologia," he said there was no--it didn't occur until quickening, 40 days after conception."
Brokaw is right to point out that Biden has admitted to allowing the killing of lives he believes in faith are human. Biden's Augustine is Aquinas. But both theologians were working with an equally antiquated biology, and both men equally, constantly condemned the evil of abortion. This is a red herring that Biden offers.
Back to the core of Biden's argument:
"How am I going out and tell you, if you or anyone else that you must insist upon my view that is based on a matter of faith?"
Like Pelosi did at this point, Biden now falls back to his talking points. You can stop listening at this point:
"How am I going out and tell you, if you or anyone else that you must insist upon my view that is based on a matter of faith? And that's the reason I haven't. But then again, I also don't support a lot of other things. I don't support public, public funding. I don't, because that flips the burden. That's then telling me I have to accept a different view. This is a matter between a person's God, however they believe in God, their doctor and themselves in what is always a--and what we're going to be spending our time doing is making sure that we reduce considerably the amount of abortions that take place by providing the care, the assistance and the encouragement for people to be able to carry to term and to raise their children."
My general observations:
And I think, perhaps most importantly...
This is not a true statement, if Biden is referring to a debate about the evil of abortion. There has never been a debate about the serious evil of abortion. Cardinal Egan would not acknowledge Biden's claim in this sense. Besides, debate does not authorize dissent. Nor does debate mean there is any ambiguity in what a faithful Catholic must actually believe and how a faithful Catholic must act. If Pelosi was wrong about this, so is Biden.
By my count, twenty-seven bishops have now responded up Pelosi's denial of Church teaching.
How many will come forward and correct Biden's equally-lethal separation of faith from reason and action?
update 2 - 9:30pm: Bishop Robert Morlino of Madison, WI already devoted today's Sunday homily to this topic. You can hear the audio here (MP3 file) and read Rocco's short intro here. Jeff Miller transcribed a segment of it - truly the flood gates are opening.
I'll be giving a Theology on Tap talk on the topic of "Faith in the Ballot Box" at the Cathedral parish of Madison, WI on Septebmer 18th. It looks like the Bishop is going to help me with talking points.
update 3 - 8:30am Sep. 8th: The New York Times takes note:
Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., the Democratic nominee for vice president, departed Sunday from party doctrine on abortion rights, declaring that as a Catholic, he believes life begins at conception. Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., the Democratic nominee for vice president, departed Sunday from party doctrine on abortion rights, declaring that as a Catholic, he believes life begins at conception.
While Mr. Biden’s views may not be new to Democrats in his circle, his comments, in an interview on “Meet the Press” on NBC, came at a time when his party is confronted with a new face: Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee, whose anti-abortion stance and decision to give birth just five months ago to a baby with Down syndrome have revved up the conservative base of her party.
For the power, and for the money, anything can be rationalized by some people.
So, make the excuse that one must “represent” their constituency with their votes - and then discount what half of their constituency believes and wants, and cater to the other 50% who are, of course, “intelligentsia elite”.
What’s wrong with telling the whole crowd exactly what your conscience dictates up front before you’re elected to a big shot position and how you will vote when a subject comes up, so take me or leave me?
Oh, I forgot. The power and the money, and the good opinion of self-appointed academics and “important people”.
Convictions we can believe in {sarcasm}.
I’ll tell you, Joe, who’s really more important than either Senators Joe Biden or Barack Hussein Obama in all this smear campaign against Governor Palin. Baby Trig Palin.
As far as I’m concerned, Joe, you and Barack have been weighed in the balance and found wanting.
I htink the thing that is being overlooked is the door that this opens for our courageous Bishops to come out and educate the flock on this particular issue (not that they should need it).
If the Bishops came out and talked the way they did after Nanbo’s prior comment they would have been accused of crossing a political line and all the hassle that goes with it. With these pro-murder politicians who pretend to be Catholic coming out it opens the door for our Bishops to educate publicly without the back fire of risk to tax exempt status.
This is developing into perfect storm.
***Another one? Has FEMA been notified? Will the democrats qualify for federal assistance after these storms hit?
Oh no. Why can’t they just leave me alone.
Just this past Sunday because of the holy scriptures for that day,our Deacon spoke of the clear and from the beginning that abortion is evil and life begins at conception. But more than that it is the responsibility of the clergy to make clear the teaching regardless of any ramifications to them. To allow a public servant to cause scandal of supporting abortion and for them to begin to give THEIR OPINION of when life begins is ridiculous. At no time can Christians delude themselves into thinking that supporting abortion is NOT supporting evil. 50 million dead children should be reason enough for calling for the end of abortion. And then we have women who have died because of abortion,some of them just kids. I love John the Baptist because he was a fearless man,his life was about the truth and the truth of the gospels even at the cost of his life. That’s what the church needs,more men like him. If the Bishops would trust in God more and come together and make it perfectly clear the teaching on abortion there would be good fruit from the seeds of truth. Jesus spoke quite boldly about being lukewarm.
This is no surprise. I am 38 years old and on only one occasion have I heard a priest defend the teachings of the Church from the pulpit. Until the Church preaches it's beliefs and bars folks like Pelosi and Biden and Kerry the laity will be left with very mixed signals.
What is up with this new eye make-up they keep putting on him? They started it right after he was announced. Makes him look REALLY, REALLY tired.....
This is troubling. What if a few all muslim pockets in the US apply for Sharia law in their communities and it is granted. This means Joe Plugs would allow honour killings, circumcision of baby girls without pain medication, etc etc.
It appears as though a few high profile self-described Catholic pols will not be recieving communion in public any time soon.
There goes the old Catholic photo op...
Your niece might consider that the law could not exist if what she says is true. The opinion in Roe v. Wade, for instance assumes that a woman OUGHT to be free to dispose of her child at any point during the first “trimester” ( a biologically meaningless term). Doe vs Bolton, decided the same day, modifies this to say that the woman ought to be able to end any pragnancy that threatens her “health,” such a threat being simply whatever an abortionist is willing to agree is a threat. So this law is based on A morality, though one contrary to Christian morality and it is enforced by the power of the state.
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