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To: thefrankbaum

No. Your language here is similar to a lawyer saying, “I pray the court...” which doesn’t mean pray at all. It means “beseech” or “entreat” or “ask passionately.”

But, when you speak to a dead human to request them to act into the living history of man, you are attributing to them the characteristics of God. You are praying to them because there is no means of communicating with the dead that we mortals are instructed to use. You won’t find this in the Scriptures. If anything, at least one man who thought they were like the Most High was made to eat grass... check Nebuchudnezzar.


10 posted on 09/26/2008 6:37:46 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
Dutchboy,

Thank you for admitting that the term "pray" has different meanings. A lot of people won't even get that far. I'll address the rest of your post point-by-point:

But, when you speak to a dead human to request them to act into the living history of man, you are attributing to them the characteristics of God

All we ask Saints is to pray for us - are we commanded to pray for each other? Further, we know that the prayer of the righteous is especially powerful. Who is more righteous than those who are with God? If a Catholic posts: "Blessed Mother, please bring all peoples to your Son, Amen" the request she pray to God for that objective is implicit in that entreatment (prayer).

You are praying to them because there is no means of communicating with the dead that we mortals are instructed to use. You won’t find this in the Scriptures.

I disagree. First, we must establish where the "dead" are. Assuming you do not believe in the "soul sleep," then where do those faithful who leave this realm go? They head to Heaven (ignoring other concepts for a moment). Okay, so then if they are still "alive in Christ," we cannot rightfully call them dead, can we? If they are in Heaven, we must now examine whether those in Heaven can hear us. If you believe the angels are in Heaven, then either they have some aspect of God's omnipotence or Heaven can hear us. The Psalmist commands angels constantly. Since angels are not God, it seems unlikely they are omnipotent. Thus Heaven must hear us.

Therefore, if the departed Faithful are alive in Christ and are in Heaven, and if the prayer of the righteous is especially powerful, why would you know ask the especially righteous in Heaven to entreat God on your behalf?

12 posted on 09/26/2008 7:08:55 AM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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