Posted on 10/10/2008 9:23:43 PM PDT by fogman
"Eternal life" is redundant. If it is "life" it must be eternal, unconquerable by death.
John 3:16 then says - "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have life".
If we believe in Jesus, we are supposed to have life.
Got life?
Remain blessed, fogman.
Strange first post, but welcome to FR, fogman!
Hope you don’t GOT ZOT! :-)
And you are smarter than the Holy Spirit, and know better the words that should be in the verse? Interesting.
fogman
Since Oct 10, 2008
Romans 6:23 says “The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” This verse has eternal in it....
Whosoever does not believe in Him will have eternal life as well...
Those who believe in/have received, accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior will live with God forever (1 Thessalonians 4:16 - 17; 2:Corinthians 5:8).
Eternal life is not just a quantity of life because everyone lives forever, it is a QUALITY of life:
1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said,
“Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify
You,
2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You
have given Him, He may give eternal life.
3 “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and
Jesus Christ whom You have sent (John 17:1-3)
Our Lord Jesus Christ defines Eternal life in verse three, there He says that it is a personal, intimate relationship with God the Father and God the Son (God the Holy Spirit indwells us) that is continuous and dynamic!
Life with God, forever. That is not redundant, that is transplendant!
Welcome to FR?
Whosoever does not believe in Him will have eternal life as well...
Where do you find that in the Scriptures? Perish is an English word for the Greek word "apollumi", which means to be "utterly destroyed".
“The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Life is eternal therefore “eternal life” is redundant.
Read this as “The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
And consider John 10:10
“The thief cometh to steal and to destroy but I am come that they may have life and have it more abundantly”.
Got life?
Love in Him,
fogman.
JMouse, thanks for taking the time to think this through.
We agree it is not just the quantity of life because everyone lives forever but rather the quality.
This is the point of dropping ‘eternal’ so we can focus on the quality.
The definition is as you mentioned - to KNOW the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He sent.
Here the semantics is of utmost importance ... what does it mean to KNOW a spirit?
You suggest it is a personal, intimate relationship with God the Father and God the Son through the indwelling of the Spirit.
True enough but it goes much deeper than that. Here is where there is no escaping the fact that the scriptures must be spiritually discerned.
To get to the bottom of this, we have to take up a related question. What does it mean to be born of a spirit?
Don’t sneer, this is important. To be born of a woman is different than to be born of a chicken.
If we understand what it means to be born of a spirit, we’ll understand what it means to KNOW God and Jesus Christ whom He sent.
I’ll pause to hear your take.
Regards,
fogman.
Seven
You state a bizarre definition, and then you blaspheme the Holy Bible by misquoting it to serve your purpose. You may have a worthwhile point to make there somehow about the nature of life in Christ, but do a little homework before posting vanities.
Seven,
Death is another term that must be spiritually discerned.
The Lord said whatsoever is born of the flesh is flesh and whatsoever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Only that which is born of the Spirit has life. Everything else is death.
Through faith in Christ, we receive this new life and the working out of our salvation is walking in this new life. Anything else is death and therefore ‘perishing’. Notice though, faith in Jesus notwithstanding, if we walk in the flesh, we shall surely die!
In the judgment, the ultimate decision is made as to who receives life. Those that fall short, partake of the second death. Yea, this death is eternal because there is no further review.
Regards,
fogman.
You use the term "new life." Why is that not redundant?
There are two different births and two different deaths, maybe even two different resurrections. That is why "eternal life" is not not redundant. You need to distinguish between them.
When God breathed into Adam, the breath of life, that life was not eternal life or Adam would still be here.
Seven
When God breathed into Adam the breadth of life, that life was born of the Spirit, is spirit, is the ‘new’ life, is ‘eternal’ life. It is the same life we are talking about in the New Testament.
So why is Adam not here?
It’s why Paul tells us emphatically ... if we walk in the flesh, we shall surely die!
This is a central teaching of scripture and our whole point. To admonish ourselves that those who believe in Jesus and have received life again must not walk according to the flesh.
Regards,
fogman
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