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"I don't believe in believers"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4761159.ece ^

Posted on 10/25/2008 2:54:11 AM PDT by malkee

Many atheists behold the persistence of religion in the West - and especially in America and its politics - with something close to incredulity. How can it be, they lament, that despite the absence of any evidence for the central tenets of Christianity, despite the enormous progress of science in explaining the origins of the Earth and its inhabitants, that so many people continue to believe pre-Enlightenment gobbledegook? That the world was created by an invisible deity, that He later impregnated a virgin who then bore a son who was His own father, that we have immortal souls and will live for ever in Heaven if we are good and love Jesus - how can anyone who has even attended high school believe such things? And how can agreement with this nonsense be a prerequisite for winning the support of the American electorate? It defies belief. So it does. And if something defies belief, a good starting position is not to believe it. That is my position.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
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1 posted on 10/25/2008 2:54:11 AM PDT by malkee
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To: malkee

Everyone take two steps back, this guy is about to be struck by lightning.


2 posted on 10/25/2008 3:01:41 AM PDT by CanaGuy (Go Harper!)
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To: CanaGuy

When he’s laying in his death bed, let’s see how feels about God, then.

Will his last words be “I don’t believe in You!”?

I don’t think so.


3 posted on 10/25/2008 3:45:03 AM PDT by Salamander (http://theuniversalseduction.com/articles/?c=Obama)
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To: malkee
For true believers, the first question to ask about any policy ought to be: How does it affect people's chances of getting into Heaven?

Nothing that happens on earth has anything to do with whether or not people "get into Heaven". Not government policies, not the behavior of politicians, not who wins elections. What gets people into Heaven is faith and trust in Jesus Christ and acceptance of His death on the cross as payment for our sin.

Anyway, God certainly had the likes of Jamie Whyte in mind when He wrote:

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (1 Corinthians 1:18-25)

4 posted on 10/25/2008 3:49:08 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Salamander

My feelings exactly. Wonder how many atheists have what is referred to as a “death bed conversion.”


5 posted on 10/25/2008 4:02:42 AM PDT by RU88 (The false messiah can not change water into wine any more than he can get unity from diversity.)
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To: malkee
Yet the expected behavioural difference is not to be observed. The vast majority of Christians display a remarkably blasé attitude toward their approaching day of judgment, leading lives almost indistinguishable from those of us open non-believers. Put simply, they fail the behavioural test for belief.

This guy is a plagiarist. This other guy said it first:

"“Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are savage wolves. You will know them by their fruit. Grapes aren't gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles, are they? In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a rotten tree produces bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into a fire. So by their fruit you will know them.”Luke 6:43-44

6 posted on 10/25/2008 4:04:09 AM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: RU88

Hopefully, all of them.


7 posted on 10/25/2008 4:45:55 AM PDT by Salamander (http://theuniversalseduction.com/articles/?c=Obama)
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To: Soliton

“The vast majority of Christians display a remarkably blasé attitude toward their approaching day of judgment, leading lives almost indistinguishable from those of us open non-believers. Put simply, they fail the behavioural test for belief.”

Straw man argument.
The difference is that believers, though they be not perfect, *are* -forgiven-.

God’s criteria is not man’s criteria.


8 posted on 10/25/2008 4:50:47 AM PDT by Salamander (http://theuniversalseduction.com/articles/?c=Obama)
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To: malkee

malkee
Since Oct 25, 2008


9 posted on 10/25/2008 5:04:53 AM PDT by Mojave
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To: Salamander
The difference is that believers, though they be not perfect, *are* -forgiven-.

So you believe that if you accept Christ as a child, you can sin as much as you want afterwards?

I believe the author's point is that if you really, really believe the gospels, you will live them. Does a pedophile priest really believe that God is watching him? Did Jimmy Swaggart think Jesus was looking when he consorted with prostitutes. Obviously not.

10 posted on 10/25/2008 5:06:15 AM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: Soliton
Does a pedophile priest really believe that God is watching him?

What do pedophile atheists believe?

11 posted on 10/25/2008 5:08:36 AM PDT by Mojave
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To: Mojave
What do pedophile atheists believe?

That nobody is watching them

12 posted on 10/25/2008 5:09:26 AM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: Soliton

That must make it easier for them to commit their crimes against children.


13 posted on 10/25/2008 5:10:25 AM PDT by Mojave
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To: Mojave
That must make it easier for them to commit their crimes against children.

No, it is the same. Pedophile priests believe nobody is watching too. That was my point and the point of the article.

14 posted on 10/25/2008 5:12:41 AM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: Soliton

Atheists = NAMBLA


15 posted on 10/25/2008 5:13:52 AM PDT by Mojave
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To: Soliton; shibumi
“So you believe that if you accept Christ as a child, you can sin as much as you want afterwards?”

Yeah Soliton, that's EXACTLY what I just said, verbatim.
I think somebody could become a crack whore, strangle puppies, go on a killing spree in a day care center and still tap-dance into Heaven.

My God, you must be the DENSEST person I've ever seen on FR.

You couldn't understand *context* if somebody wrote it on a shovel and hit you with it.

Bug off.

:::rolls eyes:::

16 posted on 10/25/2008 5:14:02 AM PDT by Salamander (http://theuniversalseduction.com/articles/?c=Obama)
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To: malkee
Its facinating to me that athiests are so preoccupied by religious faith. If they find the whole concept illogical why do they waste time and effort trying to undermine it?

We believers should understand that the athiests are attempting to take over our governments and our schools and will, if allowed, destroy our humanity.

Man is created in God's image, w/o God we are no different than animals. History provides innumerable examples of this and yet the "enlightened" close their own eyes to truth.

This, my FRiends is Adam's own sin.

17 posted on 10/25/2008 5:17:33 AM PDT by Pietro
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To: Salamander
You couldn't understand *context* if somebody wrote it on a shovel and hit you with it.

I think the Bible makes it clear in the 10 commandments and elsewhere that your behavior can result in sin and that sin can condemn you to Hell.

Sinful behavior is the disease and truely believing that Jesus is your savior is the cure. The catch is that if you truly believe, your behavior will change. Sinful behavior after that point is evidence that you do not truly believe. That was the author's point.

Your insults do not reflect well on the current state of your own beliefs, but I forgive you.

18 posted on 10/25/2008 5:20:47 AM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: malkee

This is your first and only post? One wonders “Why?”


19 posted on 10/25/2008 5:21:30 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (In VP's, McCain picked the future, Obama chose the past.)
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To: Mojave
The amount of the Orange County settlement suggests that the Los Angeles archdiocese could face a bill of at least $500 million to resolve its litigation.

NAMBLA is small peanuts.

20 posted on 10/25/2008 5:23:21 AM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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