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The bird view is that mathematical structures confirm Platonic forms by the mere presence of variables in the equations. For instance, pi is the same regardless of the size of the circle or its location anywhere in space/time. The mathematician doesn't invent the geometry, he discovers it.

I am not communicating very effectively. I am apparently neither frog nor bird. I did not mean to imply that Pi was "invented" anymore than space-time was invented. (Although you apparently do believe it was invented by God). I see the universe as an ocean and everything that exists as waves in that ocean. Pi is a feature of the ocean itself. We are now in the realm of zen where we cannot explain, but only lead. I am reading your book which gives me insight into your thinking. If you are interested, here are two books I would recommend: The Tao of Physics

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Physics-Exploration-Parallels-Anniversary/dp/1570625190

and The Matter Myth

http://www.amazon.com/Matter-Myth-Discoveries-Challenge-Understanding/dp/0671728415

I am trying to follow your implied definition of "God". It is confusing to me in that you seem to be denying that aspects of God are temporal. This would invalidate Jesus as God. Do you birds have an explicit definition of God that includes the Trinity?

I have most of Plato's works in my library. I read everything before it goes on the shelf. I am having trouble reconciling what I know of Plato with your writings citing him.

Birds can learn as well as teach??

BTW, Tegmark was Shapiro. He chose to be Tegmark, but of course he is Shapiro too (superposition). Tegmark sits on the mountain of wisdom but is also up to his neck in saá¹ƒsÄra.

Thank you for the book recommendations.

I am apparently neither frog nor bird.

That’s what I gathered early on in our discussion. I said that you remind me of Einstein who argued like a frog – indeed he self-identified as a frog (Aristotle) – but had the instinct of a bird (Plato.) His dream was to transmute the base wood of matter to the pure marble of geometry.

I see the universe as an ocean and everything that exists as waves in that ocean. Pi is a feature of the ocean itself.

I also gathered the wave worldview from your earlier remarks. That is why I said it is better to watch a movie from the beginning.

You are taking space/time, inertia and information as “given.” There is no origin in your cosmology. That’s very Aristotlean, very frog-like.

Einstein was so disturbed by the Hubble discovery, that there was a beginning of real space and real time (later affirmed by measurements of the CMB in the 1960’s) – that he “kluged” a cosmological constant. He later called that his biggest mistake. His personal, Aristotlean, cosmology required infinity past and he let that influence his reasoning.

And just like Einstein’s frog view was threatened by the beginning of real space and real time, your view also cannot appeal to an infinity past, aka the plentitude argument to justify the existence of space/time, information and inertia – i.e. wave mechanics.

Space/time, causality, information, inertia, life, consciousness, conscience etc. are all part of the Creation – they do not operate as restrictions on the Creator. Jewish mystics use the term Ayn Sof to describe God the Creator. It means “no thing” or “One without end from which all being emerges and into which all being dissolves.”

Jesus is God. His life did not begin when He was enfleshed. It was His will to become incarnate. Nor can His life end.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20

Who Jesus is can only be Spiritually discerned. The ones Jesus is addressing below were physically hearing Him (pressure or sound waves) but they could not spiritually hear Him:

Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. – 1 Corinthians 12:3

Jesus Christ is the living Word of God. And the words of God are spirit and life, the words of men are neither spirit nor life.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. - Matt 4:3-4

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. – John 1:1-3

If you have – or if you receive in the future – “ears to hear” then that divine revelation will give you pause because of your wave cosmology. The Greek word Logos is translated to Word - it is also the root of the word “logic.”

Everything that was made was made by Jesus and for Jesus. His Creation is logical by His own will. If it were not, we could not understand any of it. That is why I see the "unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics" as His copyright notice on the cosmos.

And He spoke “all that there is” into existence – hence, the wave phenomena.

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. – Psalms 19:1-3

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. – Psalms 33:6

A thing is true because He says it.

God’s Name is I AM and Alpha and Omega. He is not time-bound.

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. – Exodus 3:14

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. – John 8:58

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. – Revelation 1:8

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. – Revelation 22:13

My favorite metaphor for the Trinity is an ancient one. The Father is like the sun and the Son is like the light of the sun and the Holy Spirit is like the heat of the sun. The light and the heat cannot be separated from each other and both of them emanate from the sun. And if the sun had no beginning or end - as God has no beginning or end – both the light and the heat would share in that attribute as well.

Scripture speaks of the Trinity here (Spirit, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of God:)

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. – Romans 8:9

The doctrine of the Trinity was subtle in the Torah – but it was there. El means mighty one, singular, as in El Shaddai which means “God Almighty” (Gen 17:1) Elohim means mighty ones, plural, as in Ruach Elohim which means “Spirit of God” (Gen 1:2). One God, three "Persons."

To God be the glory!