I Love that Woman! My Unworthy Reflections on The Immaculate Conception

Fighting Irish Thomas ^ | 12-08-06 | Tom O'Toole

[mlizzy]

Today's feast day is more than Pope Pius IX's 1854 infallible proclamation, as important as that Dogma was and is. Today's feast day, which issues not only from the Papal Bull Ineffabilis Deus but its echo at the Grotto in Lourdes four years later, demonstrates that the Virgin Mary, with all Her wonderful titles, wants to be known by that name. And the reason is not so much that she was conceived without sin, but that through her humility before God She continued without sin until the day She was assumed into Heaven. It is for this reason Her prayer is so powerful, Her intercession so necessary.

[AnAmericanMother]

Amen! and amen!

What C.S. Lewis called "mere Christianity" - the parts we can all agree upon.

And you're right, the barbarians are at the gates. I find I have far more in common with the orthodox (that is to say truly believing) Baptist, Evangelical, Russian/Greek Orthodox, or Jew than with the watered-down middle-of-the-road liberal denominations or with the frankly liberal screaming loons like the Episcopalians (of which I used to be one - but not liberal and rarely screaming).

[deepseaangler]

For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he has saved us, by the washing and renewing of the Holy Ghost. (Titus 3:5) For ther is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5)

[AnAmericanMother]

Of course. That's exactly what I was saying.

The grace which filled the Blessed Virgin so completely that no room was left for sin is "the gift of God" - not by any merit or works on her part but the "washing and renewing of the Holy Ghost". God assured that His home on earth was spotless and fitting.

Mary is not Christ -- she always humbly points the way to him. "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do." John 2:5.

[Iscool]

Another point, this Holy Mystery shows the most incredible virtue of humility, Christ obedient to His Mother

Yep...the only thing that stands in your way is the Scripture that God wrote for us to read...

You think Jesus was obedient to Mary when he ran off and she couldn't find him for a few days???

Quite a fairytale that has evolved...

[Iscool]

That does make sense that she would need to be sinless. If Jesus was also fully human, how could a sinner partake in raising him? I would have to agree with the church.

Kind of like Superman and 'his' parents, eh??? God tells us in His written words to us that ALL are sinful...

[frogjerk]

Another point, this Holy Mystery shows the most incredible virtue of humility, Christ obedient to His Mother Yep...the only thing that stands in your way is the Scripture that God wrote for us to read... You think Jesus was obedient to Mary when he ran off and she couldn't find him for a few days??? Quite a fairytale that has evolved...

Too bad your wrong about this. Are you saying that Jesus broke the 4th Commandment? I don't think so.

[frogjerk]

Kind of like Superman and 'his' parents, eh??? God tells us in His written words to us that ALL are sinful...

I guess Jesus is sinful in *your* interpretation then...very messed up.

[Iscool]

I guess Jesus is sinful in *your* interpretation then...very messed up.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Is that too difficult for you??? Do you need someone to interpret that for you??? Is God telling you that Jesus was a sinner???

[annalex]

You don't understand Romans 3. Read that verse in the context of the other verses, such as:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 All have turned out of the way; they are become unprofitable together: there is none that doth good, there is not so much as one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have dealt deceitfully. The venom of asps is under their lips. 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery in their ways: 17 And the way of peace they have not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes

(Rom 3)

Does that describe "all"?

[Iscool]

Does that describe "all"?

Nope...But the verses you left out do...

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: (that includes Mary) that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

There is no righteousness other than God's righteousness...Doesn't matter how good you are...You can't fabricate your own righteousness...

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

[Religion Moderator]

Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[prayerfullywaiting]

Mary was full of grace. She gave a perfect “yes”. She had to give a perfect yes. After all she was the mother of Jesus who was sinless in his divine human nature.

[annalex]

Nope...

Thanks. I appreciate straighforward answer.

Indeed, no one, the Blessed Mother of God included, can fabricate her own righteousness.

[frogjerk]

Interesting how you avoid the first question I posed. Oh well...

[mlizzy]

MODS: I was told I need to ask you to mark this Catholic Caucus. Thank you!