You wrote:
“I believe I addressed everything you mention...”
That’s not even remotely true. If it were true, then your posts would be as long and detailed as mine. But they’re not.
“Even this:...Like I said, cooperate is not a bible word...”
Trinity is not a Bible word. Come to think of it, are you sure that “Bible” is a Bible word? Where in the Bible does the word Bible appear? Right, nowhere. And, as I already pointed out, and you keep avoiding, “Working together” is cooperation.
“The word is labor...You took verses that say labor and twist them into saying cooperate...WE DO NOT COOPERATE...”
Then you resist God. Either you cooperate or you resist. There is no middle ground here. To protect your Protestant beliefs you’re willing to proclaim that you openly resist God? How sad. That just proves that Protestant Anti-Catholics are opposed to Christ as much as they claim to be opposed to His Church.
If you do not cooperate with God, then you must be resisiting Him. There is no third way.
“You are not a cooperator with God any more than Mary is a co-redeemer...”
Incorrect. I do most certainly cooperate with God by not resisting Him, by praying, by fasting, by trying understand His word with the help of the Holy Spirit, His grace and the Church. Again, if you do not cooperate with God, then you oppose Him. Make your choice.
“Cooperate is a weak word...It suggests that you do as you are told, or you share in an operation...”
Your dismissal is weak...It suggests that you do not have a real response, or have any idea of what to say...
“And this in no way applies to receiving our salvation...”
Who said it did? Not me. Again, now, I have stated and restated this obvious point. Yet, as an anti-Catholic you apparently feel the need to make up straw men. No where have I ever said that we make our own salvation. At the same time, however, I have pointed out - REPEATEDLY - what you apparently have no response to: God does not save us against our will. If we are not open to Him, we are doomed. If we resist Him and His grace, we are doomed. Instead, we must cooperate to be saved.
I have made that point numerous times, and yet you have avoided commenting upon it even once as far as I can recall. Yet you say things like, “I believe I addressed everything you mention...”
This is easy for me. You are having difficulties and cannot even respond to points I make. Wonder why?
“In that process, God is the sole ‘operator’...”
Salvation is a process? Pray tell, when did Protestants come to believe that little gem about sanctification and justification?
“We do not labor...We do not co-operate...We do nothing but believe...”
So you don’t “accept”? You don’t “commit”? You don’t “repent”? You see, believing something doesn’t necessarily entail doing any of the things I just mentioned. Now, you’ll say, “Of course believing in Christ means accepting Him, repenting of our sins, and committing to Him,” right? Strange how your story keeps adding more and more “work” and “cooperation” all the time.
“It’s easy to see that your Catholic word cooperate covers a lot of area and is meant to deceive...”
The Catholic word “cooperate”? So now it is a Catholic word? You mean no Protestants ever use it? LOL! That’s rich. Rather than actually deal with the verses I posted or refute the ideas I posted or even answer the many questions I ask, you must attempt to denigrate the very word “cooperate” by saying it is as loathesome a thing in your estimation as God’s Church?
“You showed us cooperate means to labor...”
No. I showed you that to cooperate means “working together” and I pointed out that that labor was different for those involved. Remember how I repeatedly mentioned prayer - every mention of which you have avoided commenting upon - and fasting - every mention of which you have avoided commenting upon - and avoiding sin - every mention of which you have avoided commenting upon? Remember all that? We should do all of those things. None of the make our salvation happen. But no man can be saved who revels in sin, never prays, etc. for he would be saved against his free will - and God doesn’t do that. If a man doesn’t truly turn his life over to Christ, then he won’t be open to grace. He will be resisting God.
God saves us. But we cannot resist Him and be saved. He does the saving work. With His grace we turn over our lives to Him. That is the extent of our “work” and it doesn’t save us, but it means we do cooperate.
“But yet in the course of receiving Jesus as your Saviour, it merely means to believe, if that conversation surfaces...Otherwise it means to labor; to take the Eucharist, or baptism, or,,,...”
No. You cannot keep contradicting yourself like that. If it meant merely to believe, then where is the repentence? Where is the committment? To accept Christ means more than believing. I know of people who believe Christ is the Savior - and they don’t accept Him. Again, to be consistent, something which no one will accuse you of being in theology, you must have faith (which is more than belief by the way), and acceptance and repentance and committment. Gee, sounds like a lot of work!
“In one spot you use cooperate to mean labor...In another, you use it to mean faith...”
No, never. I use cooperation to mean cooperation. God does all the saving “labor”. We cooperate with Him. I have been consistent all along, while you continue to avoid issues, my questions, statements, say I said things I never said, create straw men, etc.
This is easy for me. You are having difficulties and cannot even respond to points I make. Wonder why yet?
“But just so some will understand, God made it clear:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
We must be baptized? Is that what you’re saying? Whose work is that? Paul clearly preached the greatness and importance of baptism. Why?
“The operation is strictly from God...He didn’t ask for a cooperator...”
Clearly He did and does. God saves no one against his will. Again, you keep avoiding that fact. “Working together with him [Christ], then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.” (2 Corinthians 6:1)
Working together with Christ...
“And NO, Christians don’t cooperate with God for their salvation...They REPENT, turn to God...”
God saves us, but not against our will. If we do not open ourselves to His grace we will not be saved. God does the saving work. We open ourselves to that work through our cooperation.
And again, the point you have avoided now many times: God doesn’t save us against our will.
“And after, they labor with HIM...”
Cooperation. Now you’re saying we cooperate with God after all? ROFLOL! That’s great. More “consistent” theologizing from a Protestant anti-Catholic. We don’t cooperate with God, but we do cooperate with God. The end result is the same: God saves us, and we must not resist Him or we are doomed. Would you refute that? Would you agree with that? Not resisting Him is cooperating with Him. That’s all there is.
“Did you ever Repent???”
Yes. Notice that? You asked a question, and I answered it. You can’t seem to do the same with my questions. This is easy for me. You are having difficulties and cannot even respond to points I make. Wonder why yet?
“Did God do the WORK in you or do you help Him by cooperating???”
God does the work in me and I cooperate with it. If I don’t, I am damned. If I resist Him, I am damned. God will not save me against my will.
You’ll avoid these points probably. That’s okay. I understand why.
Again, I will repeat what I said...This covers it all...
And NO, Christians don't cooperate with God for their salvation...They REPENT, turn to God...
Clearly He did and does. God saves no one against his will. Again, you keep avoiding that fact. “Working together with him [Christ], then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.” (2 Corinthians 6:1)
You keep changing to your Catholic word, cooperate...It doesn't say cooperate...It says work...It says labor...And that is only AFTER you have salvation...
Again, to be consistent, something which no one will accuse you of being in theology, you must have faith (which is more than belief by the way), and acceptance and repentance and committment. Gee, sounds like a lot of work!
Yes, it is faith as well...Faith that God can and will save you...
No. You cannot keep contradicting yourself like that. If it meant merely to believe, then where is the repentence? Where is the committment? To accept Christ means more than believing. I know of people who believe Christ is the Savior - and they don’t accept Him.
I see what your problem is...You don't know what Repent means...You think it means penance...Pay your debt and you can be saved...
G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.
Repent is NOT turning from sin...It IS turning your mind and heart to God...You can not turn from sin until God is within you...
Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
There is nothing you can do to get saved other than believe and have faith...
Now maybe you think that takes some cooperation (works) on your part, but Jesus is crystal clear that if you do anything to earn or cooperate for salvation, you have fallen from grace...
And since you guys won't know til you face the White Throne Judgement whether or not you are saved, you have to keep cooperating (working) thru out your life to attain salvation at the end...Endure to the end...
The big difference between you guys and us is:
You work (cooperate) to gain salvation...
We work because we HAVE salvation...
One's acceptable to God, the other isn't...