Posted on 03/10/2009 12:31:41 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
Imay be the most prayed-for atheist in America.
Since my memoir, Losing My Religion: How I Lost My Faith Reporting on Religion in America and Found Unexpected Peace, was released last week, Ive received scores of emails and phone calls assuring me that God hasnt given up on me and that Ive been put on various prayer lists around the world. So far, its not working.
Losing My Religion details my journey from a gung-ho evangelical Christian who became a religion reporter for the Los Angeles Times (I thought God had answered my prayers) to a reluctant atheist because of what I saw in eight years on the faith beat. Because the book isnt a rant against religion its more a story of a love found and lost Im seen by many as re-convertable. And if I returned to the fold, my testimony would be a valuable commodity within the evangelical community. Several Christians boldly predict that my next book will be Finding My Religion Again, or something along those lines. To that end, Ive been sent a small mountain of Christian books, pamphlets, DVDs, CDs and workbooks that the senders promise will hook me back up with God.
To save everyone time and effort, let me tell you what absolutely wont work.
Sending me scripture verses
This super-popular approach is problematic. First, Ive studied the Bible quite a bit, so its not like theres a passage I havent read that will instantly restore my belief in God. And more to the point, I no longer believe the Bible is the Word of God, so passages of scripture no longer hold supreme meaning for me; theyre fascinating from a sociological or literary perspective, but theyre not history. Sending me a Bible passage would be like a Latter-Day Saint sending you an evangelical Christian a passage from the Book of Mormon to prove Mormonism is true. It just doesnt work.
Handing me a book by a believer
As a Christian, Ive spent two decades reading the best Christian works throughout history. Like you, I hope, Ive read Augustine, C.S. Lewis, Thomas Aquinas, Ignatius of Loyola, Teresa of Avila, G.K. Chesterton, St. Theresa of Lisieux and others. If those giants cant convince me God is real, no other author will.
Threatening an eternity in hell
This is another standard tactic, filled with Christian love. The emailers are usually succinct, writing something along these lines: I hope youre prepared for an eternity in hell. Im not sure whether Im headed for hell, but do know that someone cant magically believe in Jesus just because they are threatened.
Giving me a Christian movie
Left Behind. Facing the Giants. One Night with the King. Do you understand how awful popular Christian movies are? Any film in that genre would tend to reinforce my atheism. Stop sending them to me.
Asking me to have lunch or to attend a specific church It took me four years of investigation, study and internal struggle before I could finally admit to myself that I had lost my faith. Ninety minutes over a cheeseburger with your pastor isnt going to bring it back.
Debating the truth about Christianity with me
Look, Christian apologists (defenders of the faith) can be very intelligent. So can Christian critics. Generally, debate in this area changes no ones mind. Having read the arguments on both sides, I put in with the critics. For me, theres no point in rehashing it all unless someone comes armed with a new argument or evidence.
Perhaps you can sense a double standard here. An army of Christians is trying to pry me away from atheism by any argument necessary, with no invitation or apologies. (An email just landed in my in-box with the subject line: I have all the answers to your questions.) But you wouldnt expect to see a high-profile Christian bombarded by atheists trying to ruin his faith. Unless provoked (conservative Christians influence on politics and society sparked the recent New Atheist movement), atheists have a live and let live mentality. Christians can learn from them.
But wait, my Christian friends say. We believe Jesus has commanded us to bring lost sheep back into the fold. Its our duty. If thats the case, Id suggest you follow the words of St. Francis of Assisi: Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.
In other words, make Christianity attractive to outsiders through your actions. And retire the rest of your conversion material.
Or emotionally immature. A lot I have read can be summed up that "God should have made life better and I would rather follow my urges without feeling guilty." They try to justify themselves with not very well thought out philosophies full of holes and nitpicky and false claims about the Bible, but that's about all they have to offer.
Good point. From the other comments on the thread, this writer seems to fall into the Rod Dreher category of “It’s just so terrible that there are bad people who do bad things. God should have arranged things with more sensitivity to my feelings.” Although there could be elements of “I just want to do what I want to do; don’t judge me!” too.
To be fair, it must be hard to go through life taking everything so personally, having such an intense need for the world to be perfect, always so conscious of how bad other people are. I look at how bad I am, say, “Thank you, Jesus!” and suggest everyone have more Guinness and hug a baby or kitten.
And how often is it that they have a convenient blind spot to their own sins? Sometimes I believe that God purposefully puts thorns in our side (as Paul put it) to make sure that we don't get to the point that we think the world is much more evil than we are.
Excellent point. That reminds me of G.K. Chesterton's response to the question, "What's wrong with the world?" He said, "I am."
I re read this response of yours, puzzled over your blindness to the internal contradictions. Yet, I am reminded that it is God who opens eyes...or not.
If you hold that passage in its simplest sense means that God cannot be tempted, then you must hold that Jesus was not God, for He was tempted by the devil. The kind of proof-texting you use is nonsense. The matters I brought up reach across the entire Scriptures and are explained in hundreds of settings.
If God has foreknowledge, it must mean something. If it does not mean foreknowledge, then in Catholicism perhaps it means apple pie. But, in the real world, this means God foreknows exactly what is going to happen every moment of every day He creates. All events by extension are thus fixed by His mind as they unfold. That is why His predicting the future is so obviously correct.
Just as He said the death of His Son at that precise day, in that precise location, by those particular people unfolded by the “...foreknowledge and predetermined plan.” Yes, PeteMax, He planned for these guys to sin. Is He guilty? No. Go accuse Him and see where you get. But, did He unfold this like a play on a stage? What does the text say?
I am not partial to Calvin. He did some very bad things, probably less so than the Popes in the Pornocracy Period, but bad nevertheless. He is not a hero for believers. Honestly, we have no heros, since every one is really so broken. We would never elevate a man nor give the near-worship that you ascribe to Mary. She was a broken sinner like us that God gave a great gift to. But, she said, “My savior.” You may despise Calvin and Calvinism (whatever that is), which is no big deal. But if what you really hate is the idea you are not in control of your destiny or that true righteousness does not come from you, my ambition all along was to disabuse you, or any reader, of that misunderstanding.
I’ll have to leave now and let you ruminate on these terrible truths, but truths they are.
Brief clarification - I’m not catholic.
Yes, of course, you told me that before. My apologies for not recalling your explanation. Won’t happen again.
There is no question that many, many spots in the Scriptures we are called to a “choice”. In my world view, that “choice” is really much like the call God made to Adam, when He said, “Adam, where are you?” Doesn’t God know everything? But, there it is in black and white, God trying to find his first lost human. Or is it? Neither you nor I would actually believe that God didn’t know where Adam was. After all the garden existed because of God’s continous creative word. Adam was not hidden. God called to Adam to make a point. There are hundreds of places this perspective is set out. God enters onto the stage of human history, but whether as a firey pillar or as Jesus Himself incarnate, we know that He is stooping to allow the finite apprehend something about the transcendent. Paul understood that sooner or later the Italians would ask, “If He knows everything and ultimately plans everything, then just as PeteMax argues, how can we possibly be truly guilty?” Rom. 9.
I return you to this because Paul’s answer subsumes your argument. You claim, if I understand it correctly, that for there to be real guilt there cannot be any influence upon me or I am not the party doing the sin. And there needs to be real guilt for there to be punishment that is just. I agree that in human courts, we would think like this. But, the text says that there is real guilt and He steered you into it. Why are we then “saved”? Because He said so. And at some point of time/space/history you were blind, but then He reached down and quickened your heart and you believed Him...just like Abraham.
The “choice” you make to trust Christ either originated from you alone, or from stirring from God. I am sorry if my remark seemed smug. I don’t feel smug. I feel grateful that He rescued me. I don’t know what you feel, but put yourself in my shoes and re read your remarks. If anyone might be smug it is the one claiming that “they alone” chose Christ. Christ did all He could by wooing, by asking, by preaching, but even God did not know for sure if PeteMax would make the plunge. On, off, on, off, whoops, ON! Yea!!! Whew, that was close. Good thing he came around.
That could really be seen as smug. But, you could have been left as Esau...hated.
Before you dismiss this as too mysterious, please note your second point in this post: You realize some stuff has an element of mystery. Please don’t say that perfect foreknowledge and predestination cannot be true because they just imply too much. I didn’t write this, nor did Calvin. We are simply grappling with what fits what. And heretofore you have ignored the issues of foreknowledge and predestination, hoping to steer the conversation to all of the “choces” commanded. I acknowledge those fully. We are to choose. But, I think my view can subsume yours; but not the other way round. You cannot accommodate foreknowledge and predestination.
But, one of our perspectives must subsume the other. Either all choices are conditioned by God (divine determinism), or God has no idea what you will choose next (true freedom). Would you agree with at least this much? And this is not a trick question.
As I read the story of Ryan Dimaria, I just thank God he told his parents the truth and did not commit suicide. The denial of the Catholic hierarchy in Orange County was shameful and no doubt gave Lobdell pause at joining himself to that organization. Of course I come to the opposite conclusion of Lobdell. With so much evil in the world, how can there not be God ?
Between the Lines: He may be, but he does have a wife and four children.
All sons, I believe his book says. But he still looks gay.
And my apologies for resurrecting this thread after 8 months and change, but I discovered Lobdell's book at my local library during the summer, skimming through parts of it, (finding it slightly more interesting than Chris Hitchens' God is Not Great). I had to get this off my chest after months of weighing whether to resurrcect this thread.
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