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To: Colofornian
(2) Then somehow these intelligences, who were beginningless, had “beginnings” as spirit babies of a god & goddess in some “pre-existence.”

++++++++++

You have done a good job of misdirecting folks with your questions.

And you were able to do it by asking misleading questions instead of saying this is your belief.

Do you believe the way your questions portray the life before this life is what the LDS Church teaches?

8 posted on 03/18/2009 5:58:50 AM PDT by fproy2222 (ex W.A.S.P., now a member of God's living Church)
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To: fproy2222; Colofornian

Why don’t you take the time to set him straight if he is misinformed about the LDS Church’s belief in eternity. Go ahead - you have the forum for it, use it.


9 posted on 03/18/2009 6:04:56 AM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: fproy2222
Substantiate your charge!

How hard is this to do if you are right?

11 posted on 03/18/2009 6:16:32 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: fproy2222

So when does life begin?


12 posted on 03/18/2009 6:17:31 AM PDT by svcw
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To: fproy2222; colorcountry; Rameumptom
Do you believe the way your questions portray the life before this life is what the LDS Church teaches?

OK, since you highlighted #2...(2) Then somehow these intelligences, who were beginningless, had “beginnings” as spirit babies of a god & goddess in some “pre-existence.” -- you somehow believe I am misrepresenting something here...

So which part gave you heartburn...uh, no not the best choice of words, for that would be a burning in the bosom...uh, which word or phrase didn't sit well with you...?
...eternal intelligences?
...beginninglessness?
..."spirit babies"?
...divine parentage?
..."pre-existence"

You know, ALL of these are Mormon words and/or concepts talked about by Mormons. "Beginninglessness" is less conversed about by them -- but it's still discussed among LDS.

So until you get specific on your accusation, I'll forge ahead to some of first sources for some of these:

Mormon Doctrine & Covenants 93:29,33: Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be...For man is spirit. The elements are eternal...The spirit of man is not a created being; it existed from eternity, and will exist to eternity. Anything created cannot be eternal... (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1938, p. 158)

(As you read the following, keep in mind that "spirits"=the pre-existent spirits of mankind): "The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself...I am dwelling on the immortality of the spirit of man. Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it had a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven...if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to created the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself. Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age, and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptable of enlargement. The first principles of man are self-existent with God." (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 353-354)

So as you can see that according to D&C 93...
...man is as eternal as the Mormon god...
...Intelligences had no original creation--being "not created or made"...
...Elements are also eternal...

So, while a number of Book of Mormon & D&C passages reference Christ as the "Creator," and LDS call Him as such, Joseph Smith taught that the intelligences & elements & spirits were eternal & had no real Creator (as in created-from-nothing) other than one who "organized" them. (Smith said elsewhere that earth was "organized" by God).

Bottom line: For LDS, the intelligences & elements & spirit creatures are as eternal (as in eternity past) as Jesus Christ is.

Now does that satisfy you, Fred? (Or are you yet another LDS who accused me of misquoting something -- like Rameumptom did last week -- to which I provided firsthand documentation...and then curiously didn't hear back from him on that particular again...mighty curious etiquette among LDS, I might add...to make a false accusation & then ne'er apologize for it...not very becoming of future gods or present gods-in-embryo).

19 posted on 03/18/2009 6:50:45 AM PDT by Colofornian
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