Did the Ten Commandments Exist Before Moses?

The New Covenant: Does it Abolish God's Law? ^ | 2008 | Various

[Guyin4Os]

The article is flawed. It ignores two things; 1. that God created man with a CONSCIENCE. The Apostle Paul explains it quite well in Romans 1. Man instinctively knows that actions mentioned in the law are right or wrong. Man failed to live up to the things his conscience told him was right.
2. God gave laws to NOAH, commonly called the “Noachian laws.” In so doing, human government was mandated. Man failed to establish righteousness on earth through that human government.
The point of the Torah (Pentateuch) is not that we need laws. It is that laws do not make a man righteous before God. Only faith can do that. “Abraham “...believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness” (Gen 15:6).

[DouglasKC]

Seems like as soon as they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that man became aware of what sin was and subject to the law of sin and death.

Agreed and nice way to put it.

[Grizzled Bear]

At the fall of man, Eve was enticed when told by satan that by eating the fruit she would become “like God,” knowing good and evil.

Often, we know what’s right and wrong; we justify what we do by “legalizing” what is and is not “sin.”

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a COVENANT WITH US in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT THIS COVENANT WITH OUR FATHERS, but with US, [even] US, who [are] all of us here alive this day.

Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

Deu 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,

Deu 5:6 I [am] the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me. ........

[DouglasKC]

ISV: They show that what the law requires is written in their hearts, a fact to which their own consciences testify, and their thoughts will either accuse or excuse them

Ah...I thought so. Thanks.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

With Israel.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh:
Eze 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

I believe that all these verse describe the process by which Christians are given a new heart. Part of the process is that we receive the holy spirit of the Lord which indwells in us and writes God's laws on our hearts.

Those who are not God's have hearts of stone.

So what about this?

Rom 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

The answer to this seeming quandary is that punctuation is not inspired.

For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law,

Move the comma:

For when Gentiles, who do not have the law by nature, do the things in the law,

Who had the law by nature? Israel. God taught them the law. It was theirs by nature.

Paul is making the case that gentiles who have God's spirit, Christians, God's laws written on their hearts, will do the things in the law not because they've been raised with them but because they're written in their hearts.

[BuckeyeTexan]

You might check out this site if you haven’t seen it. It has some good information about this subject (and many others.)

http://www.godandscience.org

[DouglasKC]

Thanks for the wonderful scripture. It’s evident that God’s laws did exist and there penalties for violating them. But of course the old covenant was established with Israel.

[DouglasKC]

You might check out this site if you haven’t seen it. It has some good information about this subject (and many others.) http://www.godandscience.org

Thanks...it looks like a great website.

[Chong]

AMEN!

[Chode]

i don't know a single Christian that thinks the 10 ever went away...

[Paved Paradise]

I think you did.

[Paved Paradise]

I’m not sure if you are agreeing with me but I do believe the Scripture you quoted does support my contention which is that even NON-believers have the Law written in their heart. Of course, true repentance only comes to those who recognize the GIVER of that law.

Meanwhile, there is another scripture in the OT that discusses how God has set eternity in the hearts of men and that is another verse that supports that God writes in the hearts of men the fact that eternity exists so that those who believe we just die are gravely wrong.

[Paved Paradise]

Oh we are good at that alright. In fact the Jews got it down to a science with all the laws that they came up with even more detailed and filled with minutiae that makes the entire Levitical laws look like easy.

I used to work with a lovely Jewish man and he received a weekly fax about some Jewish law and how it was applied. It was quite drawn out and fascinated me. I remember one in particular and it was about gossip and what was gossip and what wasn’t and so and and so forth for pages and pages.

Yes, God has the 10 and we turn it into the 8 billion.

[dangus]

The Ten Commandments have always been law, and they always will be law. They are natural law, established by God, since the time of creation. The law was enumerated for Moses by God at Mount Sinai, but was discernable through the spirit given Man by God since Adam, which is why Paul tells the Romans that their ignorance of the law did not excuse their past crimes.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

The Letter of Paul to the Romans, chapter 1

Basic Catholic theology. And since the Founding Fathers (of the U.S.) had made so many references to natural law in the foundational documents, I had thought it had long been basic Protestant theology. Then again:

"And many things were forgotten, which should not have been forgotten"

J.R.R. Tolkein, in The Lord of the Rings

God knows how many "Catholics" don't learn any theology these days, so I won't pick on any Protestants if this preacher feels it necessary to teach his flock.

[dangus]

>> You would be surprised that many Christians think that the ten commandments are no longer applicable to Christians. <<

It’s called antinomianism. My understanding was that even the Lutherans are no longer antinomianism. They have rehabilitated Luther’s antinomianism to say that those living in grace no longer desire to do wicked things... which was, of course, the Catholics’ position all along.

[Paved Paradise]

Well, although I WASN’T BORN in the show me state, I also like proof.

I’ll check.

[guitarplayer1953]

There was clearly a knowledge of sacrifice to God withing the first generation of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve having a knowledge of good and evil would of certainly had a knowledge of sin.