Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Petronski
He remained completely observant, as is evident in all of the epistles.

Petronski said: That's an interpretation.

Only to the illiterate. Paul says with his own words, in plain words with clear Greek present tense, "I AM a Jew..." I AM a Pharisee... I AM of the tribe of Benjamin..." You will find the present tense in the Greek texts, and even the Jerome's Vulgate. After all, even a whacked-out monk like Jerome can read that was main defense before the crowd in Acts 22, before Felix, and his planned defense in Rome.

Please, interpret these plain words (Do words even mean things to Catholics? How is it you can be conservative constitutionalists?):

Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the Law. (and he ain't talking "Christian Law" unless it madates circumcision on the eighth day, because that is the context) Acts 21:24

There, now you can argue with Paul and with James. In Acts 28 Paul claims complete observance. In Acts 21, James claims Paul's complete observance. To not acknowledge plain text, or to simply provide "that's your interpretation" shows the immaturity of your position.
307 posted on 05/04/2009 4:37:10 AM PDT by safisoft
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 268 | View Replies ]


To: safisoft
Paul says with his own words, in plain words with clear Greek present tense...

Show me the verse where he says "I remained completely observant."

Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the Law.

And what where "these reports?" False reports that St. Paul was encouraging Jews in the Diaspora to abandon Mosaic Law. To put the lie to the reports, St. Paul paid for the sacrifices required of four members of the Jerusalem community for the termination of the Nazirite vow.

St. Paul had no problem with continued observance of Mosaic law by newly converted Christians, so long as they became new Christians.

Your misinterpretation is wrong. It fails.

309 posted on 05/04/2009 5:22:17 AM PDT by Petronski (Learn about the 'cytokine storm.')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 307 | View Replies ]

To: safisoft
In Acts 28 Paul claims complete observance.

Which verse?

311 posted on 05/04/2009 5:28:45 AM PDT by Petronski (Learn about the 'cytokine storm.')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 307 | View Replies ]

To: safisoft

Let us recall why you are trying to make Paul some sort of quasi-judaizer. You have asserted all the traditions Paul spoke of in 2 Thess are subsumed into the New Testament Scripture.

All other issues aside, and they are many, that is an interpretation, BY DEFINITION, unless you can find a verse that says exactly that.

You must face the fact your problem here is existential. Either you are being intellectually dishonest, suffering from cognitive dissonance, or just plain don’t know what the word “interpretation” means.


312 posted on 05/04/2009 5:36:21 AM PDT by papertyger (Advertising makes journalism an assault weapon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 307 | View Replies ]

To: safisoft
To not acknowledge plain text, or to simply provide "that's your interpretation" shows the immaturity of your position.

Very good point and one of the reasons I hesitate to engage Catholics in debate....as they do not understand scripture. They repeat, by rote.... what their organization has brainwashed them with since early childhood. Most of what they learn is false doctrine, non scriptural and designed to conceal the truth from the masses.

Protestants are similar to a point. They at least understand that they came from Catholicism, and some of the garbage they originally took on with Martin has now been analyzed and purged as silly. Thus they are not totally immune to logic and are receptive to truth when presented in scripture.

Folks like you and I worship and believe according to the tenets of The Church of the First Century. We are the Church that was founded by Our Savior.....not them. This is one of the most frustrating things Catholics learn eventually.....that they are the ones that took Our Lord's legacy and are destroying it piece by piece, line by line with their "Make it up as you go along" doctrine. The problem is......most of them have not yet learned that.

Like I said....I hesitate to engage them because it's so frustrating and embarrassing for them to actually debate anything scriptural with modicum of intelligence. They stand on shaky ground, they know this....but cannot understand it because of all the garbage they have learned from Rome about them being superior, first in line and infallible. I actually feel sorry sometimes for them when their pathetic little arguments begin to fall apart and all they can say is: "Dude, are you getting as tired of watching all these "victors" run away as I am?" or "I must say, a new invention of the protestant heresies presents itself pretty regularly, but this is a spanking new one".

They're not even aware of what constitutes a Protestant. How can you discuss intelligent things with folks who are so mixed up about what you believe they can't even understand something that obvious?

When you get a chance go back up thread and check for all their scriptures they have offered defending the word of God. It's enlightening, and like I said somewhere earlier......they may as well throw out the book as they have no need for it in their "Make it up as you go along" theology.

324 posted on 05/04/2009 7:52:46 AM PDT by Diego1618
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 307 | View Replies ]

To: safisoft
"I AM a Jew..." I AM a Pharisee... I AM of the tribe of Benjamin..."

By birth and education, of course. But St. Paul was a disciple of Christ, a father of the Catholic Church.

328 posted on 05/04/2009 8:28:35 AM PDT by Petronski (Learn about the 'cytokine storm.')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 307 | View Replies ]

To: safisoft; Petronski
Only to the illiterate. Paul says with his own words, in plain words with clear Greek present tense, "I AM a Jew..." I AM a Pharisee... I AM of the tribe of Benjamin..." . . . Please, interpret these plain words (Do words even mean things to Catholics?

To me the same way any serious Christian does - within the context of the scripture passage. You cited Romans 11:1 - is Paul declaring a mandatory observance of Jewish rituals and laws? Not only no but what part of no do you not understand no. Paul had been in the previous chapter (infact as far back as chapter 8), and continued into this chapter to discuss Israel and their rejection of Jesus Christ in favor of the law. Paul uses his own heritage to show that God has not totally forsaken them.

Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the Law. (and he ain't talking "Christian Law" unless it madates circumcision on the eighth day, because that is the context) Acts 21:24

Yep, context here is important - these were Jews who had taken a Nazarite vow. Paul sponsored them out of the appeal of James so that there would be a semblence of peace between the Judiazers and the Christians. But what DID the word come for the Gentiles? You conviently left the next verses out:
Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Wow, really evidence of required observance by gentiles here.

In Acts 28 Paul claims complete observance.

LOL, hardly in the manner YOU claim. As a Jew before Christ he was ceremonially correct. Through Christ - the fullness of the law - he maintained that he had continued to be faithful to that heritage
Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into [his] lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and [out of] the prophets, from morning till evening.

And the response of these who prided themselves as following the law - Act 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it.

Yes words mean things, especially when they are placed into the context that God intended for them to be read and understood within.

329 posted on 05/04/2009 8:52:48 AM PDT by Godzilla (TEA: Taxed Enough Already)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 307 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson