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Revisiting the Novus Ordo (Catholic Caucus)
Musings of a Pertinacious Papist ^ | 5/8/2009 | Philip Blosser

Posted on 05/11/2009 1:53:32 PM PDT by Pyro7480

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To: netmilsmom
Valid points all:

Some folks think the Liturgy belongs to them (personally) ... and they can do whatever they want with it.

The Church teaches that the Liturgy belongs to the Church ... and even the Local Ordinary hasn't the right to monkey with it.

21 posted on 05/11/2009 2:49:06 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; nickcarraway

I’d say, not that Novus Ordo invites abuse but that the the modern esthetics (I use the word loosely) is the abuse. One can tighten the rubrics, ban the Orans and hand-holding in the pews, ban sneakers, ban beach attire, give everyone voice lessons and electric-shock the faithful into singing, and the external signs will improve. But still, so long as the congregation comes to celebrate themselves such as they are, as modernity teaches them to do, the Sacrifice of the Mass is obscured.

If I were to change one thing in the Novus Ordo, I would turn the priest eastward.


22 posted on 05/11/2009 2:51:16 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: netmilsmom

BTW, read paragraphs 7,8,9 of the original Blog ... what he’s complaining about (and rightly so) is far worse than hand-holding at the Our Father. There are clear violations of the rubrics, alterations of the liturgy (beyond any “allowed options”), and a general disrespect for the Mass and for the reserved Blessed Sacrament.


23 posted on 05/11/2009 2:52:58 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: annalex

I believe facing eastward is the normative position in the OF, and facing the congregation is an indult. But, in practical terms, that has been superseded.


24 posted on 05/11/2009 2:54:13 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: annalex
If I were to change one thing in the Novus Ordo, I would turn the priest eastward.

< snicker >

Something which isn't mandated in the "Novus Ordo" in the first place. (And yes, it should be changed ... or rather that the change of the priest's orientation should be reversed.)

25 posted on 05/11/2009 2:54:56 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: HapaxLegamenon

**Except that the abuses are universally found in the ordinary rite **

This is not true at all.


26 posted on 05/11/2009 2:56:26 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Pyro7480

Sadly, I know exactly what the author is talking about. His description of the liturgy would fit nine tenths of the parishes around here, except the one I attend, which has a halfway decent and moderately traditional music program as well as a pretty orthodox young pastor.


27 posted on 05/11/2009 2:58:18 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: Pyro7480
During the hymns, the choir sings the usual hidebound Haugen and Haas offerings, but virtually no one in the congregation sings. Participation seems to mean showing up and sitting back, like a casual spectator.

It's all I can do to tolerate the unmitigated crap that passes for hymns; don't expect me to join in the caterwauling.

28 posted on 05/11/2009 2:58:28 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler ("Mr. President, I support you but not your mission. I'm showing my patriotism through dissent.")
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To: Pyro7480
Another Look at the Orans Issue

THE TEN MOST COMMON LITURGICAL ABUSES And Why They're Wrong

Liturgical Abuses: Summarized from Redemptionis Sacramentum

Discipline Regarding Reception of Holy Communion

29 posted on 05/11/2009 3:01:15 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ArrogantBustard

>>Some folks think the Liturgy belongs to them (personally) ... and they can do whatever they want with it.<<

True, true.
And some of the laity think it’s their own little slice of Broadway. From the soloist to the Cantor who feels a need to “raise up” the congregation (as if we can’t look in the missal or listen for the organ to cue us), it’s a giant show.

We even went to a Parish in Ft Lauderdale that had the church darken and a spotlight on the altar for the consecration. Help me.


30 posted on 05/11/2009 3:02:35 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: netmilsmom
In some parishes, I occasionally have unholy thoughts about "The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch".

You can imagine what I'd like to toss it at.

31 posted on 05/11/2009 3:04:16 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

LOLOL!!!!

Now every time we camp this summer and I slice off a bit a Purgatory time at one of “those” parishes, I’ll be thinking of that!


32 posted on 05/11/2009 3:17:53 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Psalm 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office)
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To: ArrogantBustard; nickcarraway; tioga; cielo
The abuses are a departure from the Ordinary Form of the Mass.

Excellent point! The "abuses" stem from novelties introduced by a more progressive mindset. They took VCII documents and "interpreted" them to suit their whims.

Here in Albany, we are still heavily entrenched in these novelties and the bishop is now moving into his final 5 years to complete the process he began 30+ years ago. Interestingly enough, this diocese has no monsignors! The bishop does not believe in acknowledgement with titles. There are parishes now run by lay ecclesial ministers (mostly women). Priests have been reduced to "sacramental ministers", stripped of their parishes. I am encouraged by the arrival of Archbishop Dolan. He has begun his visit if the vicariates. It is just a matter of time before he makes his way up here to Albany. I feel confident he is already aware of the situation here and in Rochester.

33 posted on 05/11/2009 3:44:14 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: NYer
I am encouraged by the arrival of Archbishop Dolan. He has begun his visit if the vicariates. It is just a matter of time before he makes his way up here to Albany. I feel confident he is already aware of the situation here and in Rochester.

Sorry to burst your balloon, but Abp Dolan has no authority over the practices in the Diocese of Albany, Rochester, or any except New York. It's either the local bishop, or Rome.
34 posted on 05/11/2009 3:59:18 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko (et numquam abrogatam)
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To: Mike Fieschko
No balloon to burst. And, yes, I realize that Dolan has no authority but, like his predecessor John Cardinal O'Connor, he keeps tabs on his vicariates and reports to Rome. Why else would Fr. Minkler have risked (and lost) his life in order to report to then John Cardinal O'Connor, on the Albany Diocese?   The Bishop's Denials . . .
35 posted on 05/11/2009 4:24:36 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: Mike Fieschko
the communion fast was three hours back then

Were you around when we had to fast from midnight?

36 posted on 05/11/2009 4:28:46 PM PDT by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: Unam Sanctam

We’ve developed a little tradition among our choir during the peace. We turn to each other, hold out our hands, and bow. It was funny at first, now it seems like a nice way of passing the peace in a dignified way, to wit, the way HH does it in Rome. Course, we’re a very orthodox parish. Anglican Use. We don’t even have that bit at the beginning about “The love of God, and of His son Jesus Christ and the Friendship of the Holy Spirit...” No, we have the “Hear the words of our Lord Jesus Christ as he said ‘Come unto me all ye who travail and are heavy laden and I will refresh thee’” followed by the Summary of the Law.

Even still, I have trouble with our liturgy sometimes as we use the words of the heretic bishop Thomas Cranmer even as we venerate the memory of St. John Fisher, and St. Thomas More.


37 posted on 05/11/2009 6:14:49 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: netmilsmom
had the church darken and a spotlight on the altar for the consecration.

See, the fact that they felt the need to do that demonstrates how the congregation's attention has been diverted in so many different directions that it isn't where it is supposed to be. The mass alone, nothing added, attracts the attention to the consecration just like that spotlight.

38 posted on 05/11/2009 6:17:01 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: Pyro7480
One big thing that would help is if there was a requirement for each and every NO celebrant to be required to celebrate at least one Sunday Mass before a congregation ad Orientem. (Yes, the N.O. can be licitly celebrated "to the East.")

Why, you might ask?

Because if a gesture makes no sense if the celebrant is facing in the same direction as the people, there is no place for that gesture when the celebrant is facing toward the people.

39 posted on 05/11/2009 6:39:46 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: ichabod1

When I lived in the Orient the norm was to bow to one’s neighbors at the sign of peace at the Chinese language masses at least. All in all I think it a more dignified way to handle things than the gladhanding free for all that we have here normally.


40 posted on 05/11/2009 6:40:44 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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