Posted on 05/28/2009 8:56:58 PM PDT by ttjemery
A San Diego pastor and his wife have been told they cannot have a Bible study in their home. The couple says they were interrogated by a San Diego County official, then threatened with ever increasing fines if they refuse to stop the Bible study. (See news article here) http://www.10news.com/news/19562217/detail.html According to the couple's attorney, they were questioned about the Bible study. "'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?" The pastor's wife replied, "Yes." "Do you say 'amen'?" the official asked. "Yes," she replied. "Do you pray?" Again she said, "Yes." "Do you say 'praise the Lord'?" Another "Yes." The official told the pastor and his wife they were in violation of county rules.
The Bible study usually has an average of about 15 people.
A few days later they got a written warning that listed the home Bible study an "unlawful use of land." They were notified to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," which could cost them thousands of dollars.
Could a small poetry club meet regularly in a home? Apparently, yes. What about a Cub Scout meeting? Evidently, yes. What if they meet regularly to watch Monday Night Football? Obviously, yes.
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more of obama chicago thug tactics! argg! spit!
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
If this were me, I’d sue the pants off the county for harassment and violating my Constitutional rights.
Things are sliding downhill faster than I can keep up.
Totalitarians like B. H. Firefly don’t like religon. It’s a threat to the supremacy of the state.
“If this were me, I’d sue the pants off the county for harassment and violating my Constitutional rights.”
Its just a zoning case, NR, not the end of the republic. Given your sentiments, I trust you wouldn’t object if four or five different mosques and a madrassa or two full of bobbing and weaving Mohammedans popped up around your house.
Do not use potty language - or references to potty language - on the Religion Forum.
did you read the counties questions? What question of do you praise the Lord have to do with a parking situation? all the county had to do was to tell them their friends or bible companions need to ride share or park at a distance to continue the bible study.
I have a story about that.
I was visiting a friend of mine on Riverside Drive in Upper West Side Manhattan, and as I was leaving I found my car blocked by a double-parker: a handyman's van. I waited, then decided to blow the horn a few times. That attracted the attention of a few ladies walking their chihuahuas, who were adamant that no matter what, I should not make noise. Then one of them said: "I know exactly where the double-parker is. Go around the corner, there is something there... like a prayer house. They always do that". I went and found a heavy door with an inscription in Arabic. Bravely, I pressed and entered, and was in an anteroom filled with shoes. My shoes still on, I peeked into the main space, and it was, voila, bobbing and weaving Mohammedans. A beadle emerged and inquired what he could do for me. I explained that I have intelligence to the fact that one of the worshipers doubleparked my car on Riverside.
- Sir, our people don't do that.
- Did anyone come late? -- I pressed my case. -- It's a white handyman's van.
- You will have to wait till the end of the prayers. Sir.
I went back in time to see the handiman, the only Anglo-Saxon in the scene, emerge from my friend's co-op. "My God, you are from Maine" -- he apologized to the lobster on my license plate. "I am so sorry. I am from Maine too. This is a crazy place. I thought I'd just be a minute".
And this is how I was tricked into harassing Mahomedans in New York City.
LOL! Great story!
We have zoning laws for a reason, good reasons for more than the past 100 years. Places of worship have generally been permitted uses or special exception uses in most zones except industrial and certain types of farm and conservation zones. It appears from the article that these people felt the law didn’t apply to them and didn’t get the necessary permit. The questions were to determine if they were running a religious assembly. I hope they got shut down or fined until they complied with a perfectly reasonable law.
“And this is how I was tricked into harassing Mahomedans in New York City.”
A thousand blessings on the old ladies with the chihuahuas!
Please, tell me about the "perfectly reasonable law" that requires one to obtain a permit in order to hold weekly Bible study meetings in the privacy of one's own home. This has nothing to do with someone deciding to erect a church building in the middle of a residential area, so the mosque analogy is a straw man.
The complaint came from someone who was visiting one of the pastors' neighbors and claimed that his car was hit by someone who was leaving the Bible study. This is an issue of public use of the streets and parking and it wasn't even brought up by the neighbors who actually live in the area. At any rate, it has nothing to do with the nature of the meetings themselves, which really is none of the county's business as the official herself said; but then this just demonstrates how ridiculous it was for the officers to ask these personal questions and for the county to issue a warning about needing a permit for "religious assembly" in the first place.
“Please, tell me about the “perfectly reasonable law” that requires one to obtain a permit in order to hold weekly Bible study meetings in the privacy of one’s own home. This has nothing to do with someone deciding to erect a church building in the middle of a residential area, so the mosque analogy is a straw man.”
What is the difference between a “weekly Bible study meetings in the privacy of one’s own home” and weekly prayer meetings at the Rev. Billy Bob Jeff’s Bring Your Own Snake Holiness Temple run out of his livingroom or Imam Mohammed al Dogvomit’s Half Moon Mosque run out of his garage, the style of the building? Architecture isn’t the issue. You can do better than that, ZS.
The problem isn’t the First Amendment either; the problem is that some people simply loathe zoning, but as the chances of repealing it because it limits nonsensical “personal sovereignty” are exactly zero, there are recurring attempts to put religious freedom lipstick on an old libertarian sow.
What is the difference as far as the county should be concerned? Well, regarding "Billy Bob Jeff" I assume that there are some perfectly reasonable safety regulations that prohibit bringing dangerous animals into a neighborhood. Regarding "Mohammed al Dogvomit" I'm not really sure, so perhaps you could be more specific about the straw man example.
Or better yet start with the right question, like how is a weekly Bible study meeting different in the eyes of the county than a weekly meeting of the "Poetry Club Synagogue" or the "First Church of Monday Night Football"? Please, again, explain the "perfectly reasonable" law that requires a permit for the one but presumably not for the others. Or do poetry lovers and football fans require a permit for "religious assembly" as well? And again, how is the nature of the meeting (and the personal questions asked by the county officers about the same) relevant to the issue of parking on the street, which the county says is the real concern and may indeed be a legitimate one?
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