Posted on 06/18/2009 4:02:05 PM PDT by bronxville
“I have no complaints about Mary being a remarkable woman. I think it is safe to assume that God didnt pick her name out at random from a phone book.
But of course, Catholic teaching and doctrine goes well beyond saying she was a remarkable woman, deserving honor and respect.”
Perhaps because you haven’t done any research.
Fine. Please post the scriptures showing she was something more than a remarkable woman, deserving honor and respect.
Please don't get me wrong, I revere her only as the virgin mother of our Christ/God, she is blessed of all women. Beyond that I would never have to pray through her, she can do nothing for me.
Hi annieokie,
Try praying to her - just say the first part of the Hail Mary like your early reformers used to do. It won’t do you any harm - here’s the first part of the prayer:
Hail Mary full of grace,
the Lord art with thee,
Bless art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.
I can promise it will bring you great fruit and a lot better than asking your neighbor Joe or Josie to intercede and pray for you.
I just did...see post #47 - I think...just above on this page.
I do not accept the immaculate conception of Mary, but to say there is nothing more is not scriptural.
Would you say that "Paul was a human born in sin. Thats all nothing more."? I doubt it. It is short sighted for anyone to dismiss Mary because some have gone too far.
What does Mary say about herself in the Bible?
In the Bible, Mary clearly spells out her role in eternity:
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. (Lk 1:46-49)
The Bible says Jesus is magnified by Mary’s soul. A soul is eternal and not limited by life on earth. Mary reinforces her eternal ministry by saying “all generations will call me blessed.” If the Bible intended Mary’s ministry to end with the birth of Jesus, or at his death, or even at Mary’s death, it wouldn’t use that language.
See also my post #18.
But if you still feel the need to ignore Jesus, have at it.
The Bible says all we’re all born in sin. All have come short of the glory of God. Mary was a human woman that had the unbroken bloodlines of the lineage of David. But she couldn’t carry the title of King, whereas Joseph had broken or corrupted bloodlines but carried the title of last King of Jews. Which explains why Joseph’s seed couldn’t have brought forth the Son of God. The blood would have been polluted. Mary was just young woman that became a mother through extraordinary means because she had the correct DNA. As a mother, I would NEVER belittle her role as a woman, wife and mother. But I could never see her other than the human mother of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
No need to go through subordinates.Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you. {Ex 20:12; Deut 5:16.}
He was obedient to them. {Lk 2:51}
The Lord Jesus himself recalled the force of this "commandment of God." {Mk 7:8-13.} The Apostle teaches: "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 'Honor your father and mother,' (This is the first commandment with a promise.) 'that it may be well with you and that you may live long on the earth."' {Eph 6:1-3; cf. Deut 5:16}
How is His Mother a 'subordinate'?
Our Lord was obedient to His Mother on Earth, why would Heaven be different?
Why do we call Mary the Theotokos ? The Mother of Our God ?
Because in her womb, from the moment of conception Diety and Flesh became one. It was not Flesh first and the later indwelt with Diety. Nor was it Diety first that later manifest as Flesh. It was both united together in her womb.
Thus she is and must be the Mother of God the Theotokos. To say otherwise is to deny the dual nature of Christ.
Why do we say that Salvation came to the world through Mary ?
Because it is true. It was through Mary, conceiving via the Holy Spirit, carrying the Christ in her womb, giving him birth and raising him that our Savior existed. While true that she was granted this gift by God, and was as a result more blessed than any other woman, she was likewise a participant and without her willing service the Christ did not walk the earth.
Okay, fair enough - then how about you pray to Jesus about Mary? Just ask Him to show you the truth about his mother. Ask Him to direct your thinking about her. Ask Jesus if his mother is alive with Him. Ask Him if Mary is praying for us. Just pray to Jesus about her. Try this every night for six weeks. He will bring you to the truth about his mother.
“Even when Jesus was dying on the cross he was thinking about his mother!” (Billy Graham)
Mary clearly spells out her role in eternity:
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. (Lk 1:46-49)
But if you still feel the need to ignore Jesus, have at it.How is asking His Mother to intercede with her Son IGNORING Our Lord?
Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord art with thee, Bless art thou among women, And blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. {Luke, I, 28}
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