Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: muawiyah

You wrote:

“I believe you’re right ~ on the other hand he became a Cardinal, so it hardly matters.”

The truth always matters.

“I suppose Richelieu was promoted most often because so many powerful figures around him thought of him as a useful idiot, an empty suit ~ and he turned into what can only be described as the world’s first modern Prime Minister.”

Uh, no. Richelieu gained his position in France because he was brilliant at what he did. I don’t like the man, but I acknowledge the fact that he had incredible talent. I think you would be hard pressed to find too many reputable historians who thought of him as an “empty suit”.

“One article says he granted the Jesuits a monopoly on the fur trade ~ which suggests he either hated the Recollects, but hated the Jesuits more (getting them cooked on tribal campfires throughout the Ohio Country), or he wanted to get them out of the country.”

The monopoly went to the trade company that was colonizing Canada. Richelieu allowed the Jesuits to serve as interpreters and negotiators so that they could serve the Indians and encourage conversions. What he - obviously - wanted to do was to help Jesuit missionaries. He didn’t want the Jesuits out of France as is seen by the fact that he made a Jesuit the king’s confessor. And he still didn’t have the best relationship with Jesuits.

“He also supposedly gave the Jesuits a monopoly on French missionary work ~ which, of course, got Jesuit priests cooked on yet other fires in even more primitive countries.”

Martyrdom is not a bad thing in the Christian view.

“After Richilieu it was amazing that the Jesuits still existed.”

No, it isn’t. He was in France. The Jesuits were based in Rome.


48 posted on 06/19/2009 6:40:47 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies ]


To: vladimir998
Regarding "empty suit" he was selected for his first position solely because HIS FAMILY simply needed someone in a position to control the flow of money from the bishopric into their pockets, and his older brother had turned down the job to join a religious order.

That's a job an "empty suit" could handle. His promotion to bishop was of the same order.

His brilliance became known LATER ON.

Now, regarding missionaries, irrespective of where the Jesuits were headquartered, their access to French lands and concessions required approval by the French government - and if I recall correctly that came about at the conclusion of the Thirty Years War ~ which took papal powers in such matters and assigned them to the secular states. Richilieu appears to be the guy to credit with all the negotiations that led to the Treaty of Westphalia although he died right before the Congress.

Prior to that Treaty some of the more powerful nation states (e.g. France and Spain) regularly told Popes to take a hike and dictated from their own capitals where missionaries of which orders were allowed. England, of course, took an even more devious course, and the Swedes didn't care.

BTW, all the top commanders and principals in the Thirty Years War were fairly close relatives ~ like a small town full of feuding clans.

56 posted on 06/19/2009 6:55:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson