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1 posted on 06/21/2009 11:38:39 AM PDT by bdeaner
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To: bdeaner

Firstly, it should be remembered that our prayer is a dialogue with a real person,

I hate to say it, but Mary is not a “real person” anymore and cannot hear your words. Screaming, crying, “praying,” talking to her—these are all nonsense and not Biblically supported.

No where in Scripture is it shown that anyone “talked” to someone dead or may or may not be in Heaven, aside from Christ.


2 posted on 06/21/2009 11:42:25 AM PDT by ConservativeMind (The UN has never won a war, nor a conflict, but liberals want it to rule all militaries.)
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To: bdeaner

Lovely and instructive post.


3 posted on 06/21/2009 11:43:13 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: bdeaner

Good post. I am a converted Catholic and so am aware of things like this, but I am surprised by how many Catholics themselves think they are “praying to” various saints instead of requesting prayer.

The way I like to describe the difference to people is like if I was going to the hospital and asked a friend to pray for me. I am not praying TO my friend, and yes, I can still pray myself, but it helps to have others pray for us, too. Why not include those (saints) whom we are pretty sure made it to heaven.


4 posted on 06/21/2009 11:53:16 AM PDT by conservative cat (America, you have been PWNED!)
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To: bdeaner

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.

Luke 1:28 “And coming to her, he said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you.”
The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being “highly favored,” thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love. Mary is perfect created goodness, filled to the limit of her finite being with grace or charity.

Blessed art thou among women

Luke 1:41-42a “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women...”

Luke 1:48 “For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.”

Among all women is a way to say the highest/greatest etc. of a group in Semitic languages (these words would likely have been spoken in Aramaic). Mary is being called the greatest of all women, greater than Ruth, greater than Sarah, greater than EVE! Since Eve was created immaculate (without original sin), Mary must have been conceived immaculate. And, although Eve fell into sin by her own free will, Mary must have corresponded to God’s grace and remained sinless. She could not otherwise be greater than Eve. Thus, as the Fathers of the Church unanimously assert, Mary is the New Eve who restores womanhood to God’s original intention and cooperates with the New Adam, her Son, for the Redemption of the world.

Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus

Luke 1:42b “and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”

Jesus is Mary’s fruit. Good fruit does not come from anything but a good tree (Mt. 7:17-18)! The all-holy Son of God could not be the fruit of any other tree than the Immaculate Virgin.

Holy Mary, Mother of God

Luke 1:43 “And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Kyrios is the Greek word used by the Jews in the Septuagint Bible (Greek translation) for Yhwh, the Divine Name of God. In her greeting of Mary, Elizabeth is saying: “How is it that the mother of my God should come to me.” Against the heresies of the 4th and 5th centuries which tried to split the Person of Jesus into two, divine and human, denying one or the other, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD proclaimed Mary Theotokos (God-bearer, i.e. mother of God). Jesus is a single Person, a Divine Person, the 2nd Person of the Most Holy Trinity. To be mother of the Person Jesus is to be mother of a Person who is God. Mary’s title protects this truth against errors which emphasize or deny, either the divinity or humanity of the Lord.

Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Luke 2:35 “...and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

John 2:5 “His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Mary sees a need and appeals to Her Son to satisfy it. He does. We turn to Mary to ask her to intercede with her Son in our daily spiritual and material needs, but especially at the hour of our death. At that moment our salvation hangs in the balance as the devil makes his final foray to deter us from the path to God (Rev. 2:10). It is not surprising, therefore, that both the Hail Mary and the Our Father conclude with an appeal to be delivered from the evil one.


12 posted on 06/21/2009 12:25:41 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: bdeaner

Very beautiful.


14 posted on 06/21/2009 12:31:41 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: bdeaner; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

37 posted on 06/21/2009 5:01:11 PM PDT by narses (http://www.theobamadisaster.com/)
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To: bdeaner
I've had several encounters with the Mormon deity during moments of weakness and exposure. It's a statistical deity, obsessed with keeping track of the numbers, with an inner motif of cool despair, everlastingly pursuing a task it knows to be hopeless.

Satan yearns for adoration, and is willing to adopt any guise to embezzle that which is God's alone. Such as -- the Mormon deity. Such as -- the BVM. In both cases, demonic stuff is going on, and the spiritual / emotional atmosphere has a weird tinge to it.

44 posted on 06/21/2009 6:19:08 PM PDT by RJR_fan (The day a marxist becomes president, is the day that pigs will fly. Well, Swine Flu!)
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To: bdeaner

Very nice, but I am not convinced. I will continue to direct my prayers to God through Jesus. That being said, I am not dishonoring Mary, I am just not praying to or through her.


87 posted on 06/22/2009 6:49:34 AM PDT by Ditter
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