How Old Is Your Church?

EWTN ^ | not given | EWTN

[zeaal]

Interesting conversation.
I don't have anything to add but have enjoyed reading.

[MarkBsnr]

***How do you know all this?

Beat me to it, Mark! Good job. :)***

It’s the influence of the Orthodox keepers of the faith. I’ve been tainted by your postings...

[kosta50]

It’s the influence of the Orthodox keepers of the faith. I’ve been tainted by your postings

You did it all yourself, Mark. Seeds grow naturally on fertile soil.

But let' just see how dixiechick KNOWS all these things... :)

[goat granny]

There is a little problem with your statement that once baptized catholic you are always a catholic..

My original baptism was Luthern at the age of 12, when I converted to Catholic at my marriage the church rebaptized me. When I ask the priest why it was necessary he said it was just to confirm that the baptism was in the name of Father, Son and Holy Ghost..Which it was in my original baptism..So would you say that because I was originally baptized Lutheran, I will always be a Lutheran?

A priest takes Holy Orders and is forever a priest...I know of no rules that say Baptism makes you a Catholic forever. I also never heard any priest say that...

[Cronos]

Not even St. Paul knew that he was saved. Are you more in God’s Grace than St. Paul?

Playing devil's advocate, the sola scriptura answer would be "I KNOW -- that's God's promise to me. Why don't you believe and have the same belief? Christ died for us, so why doubt Him???"

[MarkBsnr]

***But let’ just see how dixiechick KNOWS all these things... :)***

It ought to be fascinating.

[MarkBsnr]

***Playing devil’s advocate, the sola scriptura answer would be “I KNOW — that’s God’s promise to me. Why don’t you believe and have the same belief? Christ died for us, so why doubt Him???”***

There are two immediate considerations. The first is that how does one know that one interprets Scripture correctly? The second is that how does one know that one’s belief is the same belief that Jesus gave to the Apostles.

In neither case, outside of the Church, does one have any assurance that their beliefs are correct or anywhere near correct. The Reverend Jim Jones, pre Kool Aid dispensing, no doubt absolutely believed that his faith was the correct one. The JWs believe. The LDS believe. And so on.

Jesus preached one church and one belief. The plethora of beliefs give lie to the odd notion that the Protestant Reformation, the Restoration and the subsequent buddings bring us correct beliefs.

[Cronos]

There are two immediate considerations. The first is that how does one know that one interprets Scripture correctly? The second is that how does one know that one’s belief is the same belief that Jesus gave to the Apostles

The sola scriptura answer is simple:
1. how do I know I interpreted scripture correctly? Answer: Because that's the gift of the Holy SPirit for anyone and everyone to interpret scripture. Of course, my interpretation is the correct one, though....
2. Well, my sola s belief is the same -- look, let me quote random passages from The Bible. The Church was wrong for 2000 years until I came along.

[MarkBsnr]

***The sola scriptura answer is simple:
1. how do I know I interpreted scripture correctly? Answer: Because that’s the gift of the Holy SPirit for anyone and everyone to interpret scripture. Of course, my interpretation is the correct one, though....***

Let’s compare and contrast e.g. Piper versus Schuller (both Presbyterian), or Hagee versus Graham. It boggles the mind that they all can fit under one umbrella.

***2. Well, my sola s belief is the same — look, let me quote random passages from The Bible. The Church was wrong for 2000 years until I came along.***

Yes. Everyone in his own armchair on Sunday mornings is his own Pope and, given the appropriate quantities of adult beverages, is fully competent to interpret Scripture on his own.

[kosta50]

Playing devil's advocate, the sola scriptura answer would be "I KNOW -- that's God's promise to me. Why don't you believe and have the same belief? Christ died for us, so why doubt Him???"

Obviosuly some only believe he made them a promise. Calling "Lord, Lord," and claiming you believe is not enough. The Gospels are clear on that:

41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;

43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'

45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'

46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." [Mat 25:41-46, NAB]

But the Prots tend to disreagrd the Gospekls a great deal in favor of Paul's epistles and even the OT.

[kosta50]

The sola scriptura answer is simple: 1. how do I know I interpreted scripture correctly? Answer: Because that's the gift of the Holy SPirit for anyone and everyone to interpret scripture...

How do you know that's the gift of the Holy Spirit?

[Salvation]

Welcome home, GG. I guess I should have said a “Catholic” baptism.

[Salvation]

I’ve always had a question for someone who says “I’m already saved.”

What happens if you commit a mortal sin and are not forgiven?

OSAS doesn’t work for me. I know I am a sinner, and I constantly must seek forgiveness.

[dixiechick2000]

Salvation, I know I am a sinner, too, and must always ask for forviveness.

One thing that most of your Catholic friends don’t understand is that we believe in the same truth.

Jesus is the one and only son of God, that he was sent to die on the cross to forgive us of our sins, and that those who don’t believe in this will perish.

Believing this with all of my heart is how I know that I am saved.

Being asked if I believe in three gods, and other stupid uneducated questions, was insulting.

[dixiechick2000]

“OSAS”

I think that there is a difference in interpretation, and ritual.

We don’t have infant Baptism because we don’t believe infants to be able to determine that they are saved.

Our Baptism is for those who believe in my post above, and have determined on their own that they are saved.

To publicly and openly proclaim that one is saved, and follow through with a voluntary Baptism, is a huge testimony to one’s faith.

Maybe that helps?

[Cronos]

Let’s compare and contrast e.g. Piper versus Schuller (both Presbyterian), or Hagee versus Graham. It boggles the mind that they all can fit under one umbrella.

Of course, but they are both sola scriptura -- the angels told them what to think and they were taken by The holy Spirit. SO what if they thought differently, there are different ways to God --> no, wait... each of those are correct, but anything by The Church is wrong...

[Salvation]

How Old is Your Church -- different source

 

How Old is Your Church?
by Sebastian R. Fama

Name of Church	Year Founded	Name of Founder

Catholic	33	Jesus Christ
Orthodox	1439	Separated from Catholic Church
Lutheran	1517	Martin Luther
The Church of England	1534	King Henry VIII
Presbyterian	1560	John Knox
Congregationalist	1582	Robert Browne
Baptist	1605	John Smyth
Dutch Reformed	1628	Michaelis Jones
Quaker	1652	George Fox
Amish	1693	Jacob Amman
Methodist	1744	John & Charles Wesley
Unitarian	1774	Theophilus Lindley
Episcopal	1789	Samuel Seabury
Disciples of Christ	1804	A group of Presbyterian ministers
Mormon	1830	Joseph Smith Jr.
Seventh Day Adventist	1860	Ellen White
Salvation Army	1865	William Booth
Christian & Missionary  Alliance		1865	Albert Simpson
Jehovah's Witnesses	1872	Charles Taze Russell
Christian Scientist	1879	Mary Baker Eddy
Assemblies of God	1914	A group of Pentecostal preachers
Foursquare Gospel	1918	Aimee Semple McPherson
United Pentecostal	1945	A merger of Oneness churches
United Church of Christ	1957	A union of different traditions
Calvary Chapel	1965	Chuck Smith

Copyright © 2001 StayCatholic.com

[Uri’el-2012]

How Old Is Your Church?

For anyone who readsthe Word of G-d,
knows that YHvH began His Ekklesia in Deuteronomy 4:10.

Deut 4:10 "{Remember} the day you stood before YHvH
your God at Horeb, when YHvH said to me,
'Assemble the people to Me,
that I may let them hear My words so they may learn
to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that
they may teach their children.'

The Word of G-d is Yah'shua.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[epluribus_2]

the things that have “changed” were mostly stuff added on top of the original church (hospitals, schools, administration of responsibilities left to them since Constantine turned over the Roman Empire to Christ, etc.) but the same simple fishers-of-men church never changed at the core. Anything added by mere men is a distraction. There is only one “church” and all the rest is our own vanity. So catholics and latercomers should all stop bickering.

[GI Joe Fan]

Saint Paul the Apostle founded the Eastern Orthodox Church, whereas Saint Peter founded the Catholic Church.

I refer to them as Saints in the conventional definition since they were both murdered while spreading the Gospel.