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Is There No Help For The Widow's Son? Part two (Masonry and Mormonism) (OPEN)
mormonism.net ^ | Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr.

Posted on 07/04/2009 9:58:50 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

Is There No Help For The Widow's Son?

By Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr.

There are two concepts I need at this point to reiterate. Firstly, I said that Joseph Smith had no qualms about using Masonry. This letter, I think, is evidence of that. One historian has described this use of Masonry as the "grabbing on" principle employed by Joseph Smith. This was explained to me that whatever was in his surroundings, being preached, professed, or practiced, he sometimes borrowed it and incorporated it into his ideological theology and system.

The second concept I wish to reiterate is that the Masonry as practiced in the Church under the Prophet's direction was daily becoming increasingly unorthodox as contrasted with Illinois traditional Masonry. Therefore, it appears that the Prophet first embraced Masonry and, then in the process, he modified, expanded, amplified, or glorified it. His alterations being done by the authority of constant revelation received by him, or by sheer whims and the intelligence of an egocentric genius, or at the insistence of strong personalities who surrounded him, giving advice and counsel; depending on how one views Joseph Smith.

(Continued from Part one)

In any case, these two concepts - that of "grabbing on," and then expansion -seem to be further substantiated by the following statements relative to Masonry in the Church which were expressed by some of the Prophet's closest contemporaries. Heber C. Kimball wrote to Parley Parker Pratt, who was in England at the time, only three months after Joseph Smith had embraced Masonry, in the following words: "We have received some precious things through the Prophet on the Priesthood which would cause your soul to rejoice. I cannot give them to you on paper, for they are not to be written. So you must come and get them for yourself. We have organized a Lodge here of Masons since we have obtained a charter.

That was in March. Since that there have near 200 been made Masons. Brother Joseph and Sidney were the first that were received into the Lodge. All of the Twelve have become members except Orson P. He hangs back. He will wake up soon. There is a similarity of Priesthood in Masonry. Brother Joseph says Masonry was taken from the Priesthood, but has become degenerated. But many things are perfect. I think it will result in good. The Lord is with us and we are prospered."

Heber C. Kimball later wrote, "We have the true Masonry. The Masonry of today is received from the apostasy which took place in the days of Solomon and David. They have now and then a thing that is correct, but we have the real thing.

Joseph Fielding, a convert and a missionary from England, wrote in his diary, "Many have joined the Masonic Institution. This seems to have been a stepping stone for preparation for something else, the true origin of Masonry. This I have also seen and rejoice in it. There has been great light poured out upon the Saints of late, and a great spirit of hearing. I have evidence enough that Joseph is not fallen. I have seen him after giving, as he said before, the origin of Masonry, the Kingdom of God on the earth, and am myself a member of it."

And, finally, Jesse C. Little reported, "The Angel of the Lord brought to Mr. Joseph Smith the lost key words of several degrees, which caused him, when he appeared among the brotherhood of Illinois, to work right ahead of the highest and to show them their ignorance of the greatest truth and benefits of Masonry."

What, then, motivated Joseph Smith to "grab on" to Masonry and then transcend it? The question is crucial, and my answer may be satisfactory only to myself. I do not believe his motivation was for ego-building or fort any political, social, or economic prestige and power. I also believe it is inaccurate to say the reason Joseph adopted Masonry into the Church was to create a non-Mormon brotherhood which could supply a socially needed influence and physical protection.

Though all of these reasons may have merit, I believe he accepted Masonry because he genuinely felt he recognized true Ancient Mysteries contained therein. And, that in light of two fundamental concepts, already established within the theological framework of Mormonism , the Restoration of the Gospel and the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times - Joseph was under the strong compulsion to embrace Masonry. The Prophet believed that his mission was to restore all truth, and then to unify and weld it all together into one. This truth was referred to as "the mysteries," and these Mysteries were inseparably connected with the Priesthood.

The Prophet further sermonized that these Mysteries were to be discerned, unlocked, unraveled, and appropriately unfolded unto the Church, line upon line, by the one who holds the keys of the Holy Priesthood. Therefore, if Masonry in reality contained any of the true ancient Mysteries, it would have been necessary for Joseph to accept it. The philosophic and more reflective Masonic scholars have always believed that the symbols embodied in Masonry were indeed the ancient Mysteries coming from remote antiquity.

The Mysteries were said to be traced back through the Hermetic Philosophers, through Plutarch, the Cabala, the Pythagoreans, the Magi of Media, to Babylon, to Chaldea, and Egypt. And, as these Mysteries came down into the modern institution of Masonry - the 12th and 13th centuries, A. D. - they had experienced so many progressive alterations, that there remained only an imperfect image of their original brilliancy. My assumption is that Joseph Smith believed he was restoring Masonry's original pristine brilliancy, and that he was re-creating the Mysteries of the ancient Priesthood.

Now, I should like to initiate all of you into what is perhaps the strangest, the most mysterious, occult-like, esoteric, and yet Masonically oriented practice ever adopted by Joseph Smith. This may also be another fine example of our earlier explained principle of "grabbing on." All available evidence suggests that Joseph Smith the Prophet possessed a magical Masonic medallion, or talisman, which he worked during his lifetime and which was evidently on his person when he was martyred. His talisman is in the shape of a silver dollar and is probably made of silver or tin. It is exactly one and nine-sixteenths inches in diameter, and weighs slightly less than one-half ounce.

After months of research, the talisman, presently existing in Utah, (in the Wilford Wood Collection, D. C. M.) was originally purchased from the Emma Smith Bidamon family, fully notarized by that family to be authentic and to have belonged to Joseph Smith, can now be identified as a Jupiter talisman. It carries the sign and image of Jupiter and should more appropriately be referred to as the Table of Jupiter. And in some very real and quite mysterious sense, this particular Table of Jupiter was the most appropriate talisman for Joseph Smith to possess.

Indeed, it seemed meant for him, because on all levels of interpretation: planetary, mythological, numerological, astrological, mystical cabalism, and talismatic magic, the Prophet was, in every case appropriately described. (See my addition: Appendix B. M. B. H.).

The characters on the talisman are primarily in Hebrew, but there is one inscription in Latin. Every letter in the Hebrew alphabet has a numerical equivalent and those numerical equivalents make up a magic square. By adding the numbers in this Jupiter Table in any direction (each row, column, or diagonal. M. B. H.), the total will be the same. In this case, on the Jupiter Table, 34. (Appendix B. M. B. H.) The total of the numbers will he 136 which number you will see on the talisman. The symbol for Jupiter (closely resembling the usual script, or hand-written, numeral 4. M. B. H.) is also found on both sides of the talisman, which by the way, is the same symbol for metal tin.

(E. A. Wallis Budge, in his Amulets and Superstitions, p. 394, speaking of the "Magical Square of Tin," states: "Whether these sixteen figures are added up vertically, horizontally or diagonally the total is 34, or in Hebrew letters D (dales equals 4 and L (lamed equals 30. These letters form a part of the Hebrew word for tin. The total of the four columns (or rows) of figures is 136, which is the number of the Spirit and of the Demon of the planet. When cut upon coral this square protected the wearer from sorcery." M. B. H.)

Each letter of the Hebrew alphabet has a specific and, in some cases, a mystical and esoteric meaning. The total of those meanings, as well as the connection and importance of Jupiter, is extremely and mysteriously significant in relationship with Joseph Smith. Maybe we could show that right now. Can we have the first one?

There is the one side of the talisman belonging to the Prophet Joseph Smith. You can see the Hebrew characters and you can see the square. There will be 16 Hebrew letters, and each of those letters represents a number. And, I'll show another slide in a minute showing you the numbers and each of those numbers (columns, rows, or diagonals. M. B. H.) total up to 34, in any way you would add them. Now, you see on the margins, at the bottom is the Jupiter sign, and then on the side over to the right is a Hebrew word which means "Ababa," which means Father. At the top you will see another Hebrew word which means "El Bo" - which means God the Father, or Father is God - and over on the side in the margin you will see the name in Hebrew meaning "Josiphiel," which means Jehovah is spokesman for God, of Jehovah is the mouth; on this side. Now, let's show the other side of the talisman and you will see

It's lousy Latin, but probably means, perhaps, "Confirm, O God, who is all powerful; or, Almighty God confirm me, or uphold me, or support me." It is not accurately grammatical, but that is the term on the medallion or talisman. The cross at the top represents the spirit of Jupiter, and you will see the path of Jupiter in the orbit of the heavens, and then again the Jupiter sign.

I wasn't able to find what this was, for - as I said - two months; and finally, in a magic book printed in England in 1801, published in America in 1804, and I traced it to Manchester, and to New York. It was a magic book by Francis Barrett and, lo and behold, how thrilled I was when I saw in his list of magic seals the very talisman which Joseph Smith had in his possession at the time of his martyrdom.

You will see now the numbers, rather than the Hebrew letters, in the magic square, and you will also see the three Hebrew names of deities, or intelligences, that belong to this particular talisman. You will see the square again and also the seal of Jupiter; the same back side (reverse) of the very one that Joseph Smith had, with the exactly same break in the orbit of Jupiter planet, and then again the Hebrew letters and, finally, the spirit of Jupiter. (Turn that off now.)

Jupiter, according to the Hebrews, is the morning star rising in the east, and is called in that language Sadoc (or Zadoc), which means righteous one. Now the star in the east is one of the very definite Masonic emblems, and is used regularly in most Masonic ceremonies to symbolize the every approaching dawn of perfection and restored Masonic light. To the Egyptians, Jupiter was known as Ammon, but to the Greeks he was Zeus: the ancient Sky Father, or Father of the Gods. According to the Greeks, Jupiter was seen as not only the great protecting deity of the race, but also the one, and - perhaps -the only one whose worship embodies a distant moral conception. He is specifically concerned with oaths, treaties, and leagues, and it was in the presence of his priest that the most ancient and sacred form of marriage took place: that is, marriage for time and eternity.

In numerology, Jupiter's concern with the fortunes of life, the planet is regarded as the kindly, benevolent planet, and the adjective "jovial" indeed comes from, is derived from, the word "Jove," for Jupiter. And I quote: "The gifts that Jupiter brings are those of reason, understanding of humanity, plus the ability to see things in a broad outline. It is regarded as the planet that brings expansion in many different forms. It weaves into the lives of some persons skeins of generous impulse, ranging from generosity with material things to sympathy in spiritual matters. He also controls expansion in all forms; most of the philanthropists of the world are strongly Jupiter -oriented and in the professions, those held under its influence are legislators, bankers, lawyers, etc."

In astrology, Jupiter is always associated with high positions, getting one's own way, and all forms of status. And I quote: "Typically, a person born under Jupiter will have the dignity of a natural ruler. He knows what is due him and expects to receive respect accordingly. He will probably have an impressive manner and, in consequence, is likely to be elected to official positions in clubs and other organizations. In physical appearance, the highly developed Jupiterian is.. strong, personable, and often handsome. Jupiterians are often tall, or rugged of physique. In every case, the Jupiterian influence produces a cheerful, winning personality, capable of great development." Astrology also declares that every year is governed by one of the planets. And, therefore, the planet directs the affairs of men for good or ill during that year. Joseph Smith's planet was Jupiter; and two significant years governed by Jupiter were 1805 and 1844.

The day of the week governed by Jupiter was Thursday. And I don't know - perhaps just coincidence - the fast meetings in the Church were on Thursdays for 60 years, as well as all the regular Mormon Masonic meetings on the first and third Thursdays. (Nauvoo Lodge, that is. M. B. H.), as well as the day of the Prophet Joseph Smith's martyrdom, on Thursday, and so many other special events in Church history.

So closely is magic bound up with the stars and astrology that the term astrologer and magician were in ancient times almost synonymous. The purpose of the Table of Jupiter in talismanic magic was to be able to call upon the celestial intelligences, assigned to the particular talisman, to assist one in all endeavors. The names of the deities which we gave you, who could be invoked by the Table were always written on the talisman or represented by various numbers. Three such names were written on Joseph Smith's talisman: Abbah, Father; El Ob, Father is God or God the Father; and Josiphiel, Jehovah speaks for God, the intelligence of Jupiter.

When properly invoked, with Jupiter being very powerful and ruling in the heavens, these intelligences - by the power of ancient magic - guaranteed to the possessor of this talisman the gain of riches, and favors, and power, and love, and peace; and to confirm honors, and dignities, and councils. Talismatic magic further declared that any one who worked skillfully with this Jupiter Table would obtain the power of stimulating anyone to offer his love to the possessor of the talisman, whether from a friend, brother, relative, or even any female. Whether or not Joseph Smith was first introduced to this kind of magic through Masonry is not known at present.

Where he obtained his personal talisman is also not known. But the tradition, which came out of the Emma Smith Bidamon family, attributed the talisman as being Joseph's Masonic jewel. The relationship with Masonry is possible because "Masonry did contain elements of magic, including this magic Table of Jupiter." At the commencement of my paper, I expressed a desire to be able to present some unorthodox findings and fancies relative to Mormonism and Masonry, to provoke some thought, and present something new. If I have not succeeded in doing that by now, please indulge me one last further attempt.

There is a famous legend in which the grand orator elaborates in lecture form in the ceremonies of the 13th, 14th and 21st degrees of Masonry which has some very ancient roots, bearing remarkable similarity to Mormonism. The roots of the legend extend back into ancient Hebrew traditions, but were developed most nearly - as they are now found in Masonry - out of ancient cabalistic lore and mythology. The refinement of the legend and their incorporation into modern Masonry began in France about 1740 to 1760, but the legend was in American Masonic print by 1802; and by Joseph Smith's time many publications had made the legend popularly well disseminated.

Now let me just comment that the basic, introductory aspect of the legend is: that up in the pre-existence, there was a special Secret Doctrine that was given by Deity, and it was given down to the earth first to Adam. Adam then was to carefully guard this Secret Doctrine because it contained all the Mysteries. It contained the knowledge of God, and the name it contained was the sacred name of God. Adam then bestowed it (the Secret Doctrine. M. B. H.) upon his son, Seth, who guarded it very carefully - only among the inner circle of believers - and then it was handed down until it came to Enoch. And, Enoch is the central figure in the legend. It is with Enoch that the remarkable resemblance with Joseph Smith and Mormon history become disconcertingly clear. The major details of the legend are outlined as follows:

  1. Enoch, seventh in the line of patriarchs from Adam, wee 25 years old when he received his call and vision.
  2. He was taken up in vision onto a hill called Moriah.
  3. In vision he saw a cavern in a hill, a sacred vault In the bowels of the earth. The cavity was symbolized as being a container for sacred treasures, like an holy ark, and it had a lid on it.
  4. In vision, Enoch perceived a shiny gold plate containing unknown engravings and symbols.
  5. He recognized the letter "M" upon the gold plate, which designated the name of the hill
  6. He further saw the sacred name of God, which had been lost to all mankind, and he was commissioned by Deity to preserve this knowledge.
  7. He foresaw that a flood would come to destroy ail mankind. Therefore, he felt it was his duty to preserve the Sacred Mystery.
  8. He placed two pillars inside the hill:
    1. a. One of marble upon which, written in Egyptian hieroglyphics, were found the historical events connected with the tower of Babel, and
    2. b. One of brass, which contained the history of creation and the Secret Mysteries. These records were placed in the hill along with the treasure of the gold plate.
  9. This brass pillar had a metal ball on its top, within which were contained maps, and directions of the world and of the universe, and which also acted as a sort of oracle.
  10. Enoch then placed a stone lid, or slab, over the cavity into the hill.
  11. Enoch predicted that on the other side of the deluge an Israelitish descendant would discover anew the sacred buried treasure.
  12. As predicted after the flood, a great king, named Solomon, came to power and desired to build a sacred house for the in-dwelling of the divine presence.
  13. Solomon and his builders, the Masons, while building and excavating for the temple at Mt. Moriah, discovered the cavern and the sacred treasure.
  14. After three attempts to obtain the treasure, they were finally successful. Those Masons were very rejoiceful upon receiving these preserved Mysteries.
  15. But. three wicked men intervened and committed a horrible crime. They attempted to force one of the Masons, one of the faithful Masons who had discovered the treasure. Hiram Abif; or Hiram, the widow's son, to reveal the hiding (place) and the contents of the hidden treasure.
  16. He would not reveal his knowledge and therefore they killed him.
  17. While being slain, Hiram. with uplifted hands, cried out, "Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" This has since become a general Masonic distress call.
  18. Then three loyal Masons, seeking revenge, pursued the three evil ones.
  19. One of the three faithful Masons overtook one of the arch-villains. He was asleep with his word, or knife, nearby.
  20. The Mason slew the villain with his own knife by cutting off his head.
  21. In Masonic ceremonies, the words ``strike off his head" were employed.
  22. Also in Masonic ceremonies, in revolutionary France, the re-enacting of the killing of this villain. the tyrant's name was King Philippe le Bel (Philip IV or the Fair who destroyed the Knights Templar. M. B. H.)
  23. The loyal Mason was rewarded by King Solomon.
  24. The recovered treasures then became part of the temple treasury. It consisted of the brass records, the gold plate, the metal ball, the breast plate and the urim and thummim.

Such is the Masonic legend of the Secret Doctrine, or the sacred treasure in the sacred hill, or the treasure of the widow's son.

The parallels of Joseph Smith and the history of Mormonism are so unmistakable, that to explain them only as coincidence would be ridiculous.

Joseph Smith was named Enoch, even by God. He was 25 when he brought forth his sacred record. His sacred record was buried in the hill by a man who had the initial "M". There were gold plates containing the mysteries of God. They were also in Egyptian hieroglyphics or some Egyptian form. There were brass plates, which also contained an account of the creation of the world. There was another record which contained an account of the tower of Babel. The cavity in the hill, and the hill and the cavity Joseph both saw in vision, was covered with a stone lid. The other treasures in the stone box were the breastplate, the urim and thummim, as well as the round metal ball which served as a director and was called the Liahona.

Joseph Smith also claimed to be an Israelite, and he too made several fruitless attempts at getting the treasure when he first saw it. Joseph Smith had three witnesses to the Book of Mormon and the record itself bears witness that an arch-villain named Laban, or Laban, was thwarting the availability and accessibility of the sacred records, had his head cut off by his own sword. This prophet also built temples for the in-dwelling of God's spirit. Now these parallels, dramatic as they seem, still do not represent the strangest part of the story. All of these aspects of the legend seem transformed into the history of Joseph Smith, so much so that even it appears to be a kind of symbolic acting out of Masonic lore.

But there is a point in this drama where the action goes beyond metaphor and the symbol merges into a tragic reality. This has to do, of course, with the death of Hiram Abif in the legend and the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, in June Joseph Smith gave himself up to be imprisoned and on June 27, 1844, a mob stormed the little Carthage jail. Hyrum was killed instantly and John Taylor seriously wounded. Joseph Smith, Master Mason and widow's son, went to the window and with upraised hands, commenced giving the Masonic distress call to fraternal Masons who were present in the mob: "Oh, Lord, My God." He was unable to complete his plea and fell out of the window to his death.

How does a Mormon historian interpret Joseph Smith and the Masonic Enoch legend? The parallels demand an answer. Was Joseph Smith the fruition of Enoch's prophecy? Was this an extreme "grabbing on" by the Prophet? Or did mysterious and divine, even magical, forces attach themselves to him? Can anyone deny that Masonic influence on Joseph Smith and the Church, either before or after his personal Masonic membership? The evidence demands comments.

I have attempted to indicate that with regard to Mormonism and Masonry, there remains an abundance of that which is "new under the sun." I do not believe that the Nauvoo story can adequately be told without an inquiry into Masonry.

There are many questions which still demand the answers. I earnestly hope I have raised some questions. Perhaps I have answered a few. But if we, as Mormon historians, respond to these questions and myriads like them relative to Masonry in an ostrich-like fashion, with our heads buried in the traditional sand, then I submit: there never will be "any help for the widow's son."

APPENDIX A

The Joseph Smith Masonic Letter to Joseph Hull (spelling as in original)

(page of notes - part of the letter)

Crotched, ho-we-he 1-we 2 eyes all part for we See but in part with our two that our eyes Sprang from his 1 that our 2 Spirits Did the Same Light Darkness which is Commonly called God & Saton

I pronounced eye one only

Please not let any See my letters who you think Cannot Digest the ideas for it would do them an injury

(page 1 of letter, with unknown number of lines missing from the top)

at the same time making the new choice, while doing this their has a great number of roughings have appeared over poured the Tyle broken into the Lodge and made all this Confusion amongst the Nations of the Earth. the time has been when the WM was in Asia SW in Europe & the JW in Africa, & no Doute the tyters Sword was kept in Some part of India or Chinen. wet, how now will it be. After the new Arangements. why as I See with my intellectual eyes I must Still look to Asia to find the WM, that part of the Globe being the first inhabited.

Link to Part one)


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; lds; masonry; mormon; thewidowsson
Disclaimer: I am former LDS and "anti" mormonism. I post articles from official mormon sources that often relate to current discussions taking place on the forum to provide a means for open discussion in the Religion forum.
 
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1 posted on 07/04/2009 9:58:50 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; ...

Ping


2 posted on 07/04/2009 10:01:07 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If Tehran offered an unclenched fist, Obama would be shaking a bloody hand and calling it good.)
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To: greyfoxx39
The evidence demands comments.

The LACK OF evidence demands comments, as well. Such as what did Joseph Smithe supposedly 'learn' was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism?


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
3 posted on 07/04/2009 10:20:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

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Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

4 posted on 07/04/2009 12:36:28 PM PDT by narses (http://www.theobamadisaster.com/)
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To: greyfoxx39
This contradicts the Mormon line of today that whatever resemblance there is of Mormonism to Masonry is minor and surperficial and that Smith imbued the Masonry practices with a different meaning and purpose.

The Mormon web site ‘Lightplanet’ attempts to explain away Mormonism as just a rehash of Masonry.

5 posted on 07/04/2009 1:51:48 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change; uglybiker; MeanWestTexan

> The Mormon web site ‘Lightplanet’ attempts to explain away Mormonism as just a rehash of Masonry.

It would appear that someone within Mormonism didn’t take his Freemasonic Oaths very seriously and stole vast quantities of our Ritual to use for his own purposes.

I will not comment on whether that same person also stole and revealed our Secrets: doing so wouldn’t be at all helpful.

What I will say is this: a Freemason takes his oaths to be serious undertakings. Being able to keep your word and preserve confidences is a key character trait of a reliable man: it is a character trait that is diminishing rapidly in these latter days, unfortunately and to Society’s cost.

It is a character trait that is clearly lacking in the thief who stole our rituals and used them to his own purpose. By doing so he has made himself a willfully perjured individual, void of all moral worth, and totally unfit to be received into any warranted Lodge or society of men who prize honor and virtue over the external advantages or rank or fortune.


6 posted on 07/05/2009 12:29:10 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Secret oaths, special handshakes, secret rituals to initiate new members, a mythical history, childishness done with a straight face. No wonder it appealed to Smith, who simply pursued it to a predictable conclusion, fraud.

Stolen ritual? Where did Freemasonry get these rituals?

For a Christian God's Word the Bible is the source of moral teaching, not secret symbols and oaths.

7 posted on 07/05/2009 1:17:08 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

> a mythical history, childishness done with a straight face.

Careful, FRiend... the stones that you are throwing at others can be just as easily launched back at you. There are some people in this world who believe that Christianity has “a mythical history and is childishness done with a straight face.”

As a devout and practising Christian I am very careful not to spread the bad news about other religions, but rather to focus on the Good News of the Kingdom of God and the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ — otherwise known as the Gospel. We have a good and exciting enough story to tell without bad-mouthing others.

> No wonder it appealed to Smith, who simply pursued it to a predictable conclusion, fraud.

It is clear that he stole things that did not belong to him, so the conclusion is indeed predictable. He is a thief.

> Stolen ritual? Where did Freemasonry get these rituals?

They were created by Freemasons in antiquity, and have been passed on amongst Freemasons since. They are ours to know and ours to keep.

> For a Christian God’s Word the Bible is the source of moral teaching, not secret symbols and oaths.

Certainly the Bible is an important source of morality for Christians. The laws of the land are another. Parental instruction is yet another.

All of those are important sources of Morality for Christians.

For Freemasons (whose numbers include many Christians such as myself), our collection of rituals, oaths, allegories, symbols and secrets are another important source of morality.


8 posted on 07/05/2009 3:16:57 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
“For Freemasons (whose numbers include many Christians such as myself), our collection of rituals, oaths, allegories, symbols and secrets are another important source of morality.”

As the Apostle of Christ Jesus, Paul, said to Timothy (2 Tim. 3:14-16) it is the Scriptures that makes one “wise for salvation” and “fully competent, completely equipped for every good work”.

Parents can teach and secular law can reflect God's Word but what else could be a source of morality for Christians?

“Careful, FRiend... the stones that you are throwing at others can be just as easily launched back at you. There are some people in this world who believe that Christianity has “a mythical history and is childishness done with a straight face.”

Of course there are such people but are those people not quite acceptable to Freemasonry as they kiss their “sacred book” on the altar? Be that sacred book the Koran or the writing of the Gnostics or The Egyptian Book of the Dead?

“Bad news about other religions”? Freemasonry claims, most of the time, that it is not a religion. And dressing up its rituals in the robes and sacred underwear of Mormonism does not and cannot make it Christian.

I make no apology for calling those who demean God's Word, frauds.

9 posted on 07/05/2009 4:54:15 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

> Parents can teach and secular law can reflect God’s Word but what else could be a source of morality for Christians?

Freemasonry, I’d suggest, is a great source of morality for Christians. So are the Boy Scouts. So is West Point, Parris Island, Annapolis. So is the International Alliance of Guardian Angels...

...there are lots of great sources of morality. As Christians we believe that the Holy Bible is paramount.

> Of course there are such people but are those people not quite acceptable to Freemasonry as they kiss their “sacred book” on the altar?

The chief requirement of being a Freemason is that he (for it is always a male) must believe in God. This means that by definition there are no Atheist Freemasons. And there are very few Agnostic Freemasons. If he does not believe in God and he does not make a positive statement affirming that belief he cannot be a Freemason.

Men who believe in God are therefore acceptable to Freemasonry. Those who don’t, aren’t.

> Be that sacred book the Koran or the writing of the Gnostics or The Egyptian Book of the Dead?

Yes. The “Volume of Sacred Law” is usually the Bible, but can be whatever sacred book is of religious meaning to the candidate. It is whatever sacred work that defines his religious beliefs.

And so, in my case, the Volume of Sacred Law upon which I took my Oaths is the Holy Bible.

> Freemasonry claims, most of the time, that it is not a religion. And dressing up its rituals in the robes and sacred underwear of Mormonism does not and cannot make it Christian.

You are right: Freemasonry isn’t a religion.

I had interpreted from your response that you were speaking of Mormonism as “a mythical history, childishness done with a straight face”, and I was responding to you as a fellow Christian. Did I mistake your intention?

> And dressing up its rituals in the robes and sacred underwear of Mormonism does not and cannot make it Christian.

Freemasonry is a private club for men who believe in God.

Mormonism is a branch of Christianity insofar as it believes in and preaches Christ. I don’t know anything about holy underwear: there’s several pairs of my holey underwear in my garage: I use them as rags.

> I make no apology for calling those who demean God’s Word, frauds.

Is that really the Christian’s Way to preach? Is it not rather our calling to spread the Gospel, which is the Good News of the Kingdom of God and the Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ? What if any part has calling people “frauds” got to do with our calling as Christians?

As well, calling people names is both bad manners and highly ineffective salesmanship. I’m a salesman by profession, and it is and always has been considered bad form to “negative sell”: dwelling upon the weaknesses of your competitor’s offering, rather than highlighting the advantages of your own.

Negative selling is a turn-off, and it harms a salesman’s Credibility. You will never persuade somebody by calling your competitors names. You will certainly never convert a competitor by calling him a fraud.


10 posted on 07/05/2009 5:41:00 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
As Paul said, ‘we are not peddlers of the Word of God’.
Nor should Christians become unevenly yoked with unbelievers and light had no sharing with darkness.

Guess he, like Peter, had “bad manners”.

“I had interpreted from your response that you were speaking of Mormonism as “a mythical history, childishness done with a straight face”, and I was responding to you as a fellow Christian. Did I mistake your intention?”

No, that would fit the beliefs of Mormonism just as well as the god of Mormonism is not the God of the Bible any more than Islam's Allah is.

“Is that really the Christian’s Way to preach? Is it not rather our calling to spread the Gospel, which is the Good News of the Kingdom of God and the Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ? What if any part has calling people “frauds” got to do with our calling as Christians?”

How is pointing out the blind guides unchristian?

Jesus said he was the way and that no one came to the father except through him, not through Joseph Smith, Hiram Abiff, Mohamed, Allah, etc. Calling Joseph Smith a fraud is the simple truth as he produced a fraudulent work, The Book of Abraham, from an Egyptian funeral text that he claimed he could translate but that in actuality had nothing to do with Abraham. If pointing to that fraud and that the teachings of Smith reject the Bible is considered bad manners so be it. If saying a competitor's product is dangerous or even deadly is considered bad manners, so be that too. Part of that Good New was God was not going to allow competition with His Kingdom forever.

11 posted on 07/05/2009 8:31:48 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Choose you this day which you will serve...



Yeshua Ha Masiach (Jesus of Nazareth)

Prophet on the Priesthood

not to be written

lost key words

Ancient Mysteries

"the mysteries,"

keys of the Holy Priesthood

true ancient Mysteries,

symbols embodied in Masonry

ancient Mysteries

Hermetic Philosophers,

Plutarch

Cabala

Pythagoreans

Magi of Media

Babylon

Chaldea

Egypt

mysterious

occult-like

esoteric

magical Masonic medallion

talisman

silver or tin

Jupiter talisman

image of Jupiter

Table of Jupiter

planetary

mythological

numerological

astrological

mystical cabalism

talismatic magic

Amulets and Superstitions

Spirit and of the Demon of the planet

mystical and esoteric

Jehovah is spokesman for God, of Jehovah is the mouth

cross at the top represents the spirit of Jupiter

magic book

magic seals

magic square

deities, or intelligences, that belong to this particular talisman

spirit of Jupiter

morning star rising in the east

Zadoc

Masonic emblems

Ammon

Zeus

Sky Father

Father of the Gods

marriage for time and eternity

numerology

astrology

every year is governed by one of the planets

magic bound

astrologer

magician

talismanic magic

celestial intelligences

names of the deities

invoked by the Table

Josiphiel, Jehovah speaks for God, the intelligence of Jupiter.

intelligences

power of ancient magic

riches

favors

power

honors

dignities

councils

power of stimulating anyone to offer his love to the possessor of the talisman

even any female

Joseph's Masonic jewel

magic Table of Jupiter

ancient cabalistic lore and mythology

pre-existence

Secret Doctrine

Deity

all the Mysteries

sacred name of God

inner circle of believers

sacred treasure in the sacred hill

treasure of the widow's son

gold plates containing the mysteries of God

Egyptian hieroglyphics

brass plates

breastplate

urim and thummim

round metal ball

Liahona

acting out of Masonic lore





12 posted on 07/05/2009 4:12:21 PM PDT by DoorGunner ( "...and so, all Israel will be saved.")
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To: DieHard the Hunter; Chode; TheLion; AxelPaulsenJr; jimt; Eric in the Ozarks; oldtimer; pt17; ...


MASONIC

LIST

Send uglybiker a FReepmail if you would like on/off The Masonic PING List
The List of Ping Lists


13 posted on 07/05/2009 5:47:19 PM PDT by uglybiker (Only bikers know why dogs stick their heads out of car winders!)
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To: greyfoxx39

Eye-in-the-Pyramid bump


14 posted on 07/05/2009 7:23:26 PM PDT by Dajjal (Obama is an Ericksonian NLP hypnotist.)
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To: uglybiker

Thanks for the ping, brother!


15 posted on 07/06/2009 12:22:04 PM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: uglybiker

Appreciate the ping! Thanks!


16 posted on 07/07/2009 8:34:08 AM PDT by pt17
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To: greyfoxx39

In sum, the con man took the fraternity rituals and turned it into a fake religion.

What an insult to masons everywhere.


17 posted on 07/10/2009 3:40:24 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Defend America from the Communist.)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

I’ve often wondered why the Masons have not made more of the theft.


18 posted on 07/10/2009 3:42:48 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Please God, deliver us from the deprivations of the Obamonster, and do it SOON!)
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To: greyfoxx39

For a long time, Mormons could not be masons for this reason.

I think there is some relaxation of this, but it’s left to each Lodge.


19 posted on 07/10/2009 3:46:47 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Defend America from the Communist.)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

When I was mormon, decades ago, there was a mormon prohibition against “secret societies”...small wonder...members might learn too much about their rituals.


20 posted on 07/10/2009 4:02:44 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Please God, deliver us from the deprivations of the Obamonster, and do it SOON!)
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