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To: Tennessee Nana

JS never tried for president.
Come on. Seriously, wouldn’t a conservative agree with freedom of religion? How have Mormons offended you or yours? If a missionary has been mean or annoying to you, rest assured that not all Mormons are like that.


43 posted on 07/12/2009 12:07:22 PM PDT by wildlybamboozled (I'm a pro-life, religious, Mormon, and conservative nutcase. You going to say anything?)
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To: wildlybamboozled

Joseph Smith, Candidate for Preseident of the United States, 1844

He had already declared himself king of the world...


45 posted on 07/12/2009 12:10:50 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: wildlybamboozled

If a missionary has been mean or annoying to you, rest assured that not all Mormons are like that.
_________________________________________________

With arrogent boastful Joey Smith as the “shining” example ???

When toi be a mormon one has to adhere to Joey Smith and his teachings and hareld his life ???

When non-mormons are to be stolen from because the mormons “own” everything anyway..

(This is what got them into trouble in Missouri where the murdered people and stole women and cattle)

Name two that dont sing Praise to the Man...

Worshiping Joey Smith their pagan lord...

While the Christian world sings praies to Jeus Christ their Lord...


46 posted on 07/12/2009 12:16:45 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: wildlybamboozled

Make that...

Joseph Smith, Candidate for President of the United States, 1844

The missionaries were given the job to knock on doors and campaign for Joey Smith


47 posted on 07/12/2009 12:18:33 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: wildlybamboozled

wouldn’t a conservative agree with freedom of religion?
_____________________________________________

A conservative would ...

But Joey Smith was not a conservative...

And Brigham Young had quite a theocracy going in his ditatorship in the Utah Territory...

He killed anyone he though might not agree with him..

There was only one religion around the mormons...

And still is in the mormon tenets..

And Williard Mitt Romney is a liberal..

Who though he was going to be king of the world ..

as prophecied by Joseph Smith...

Mormons believe and teach that Christianity is an abomination...

Is that freedom of religion ???

Mormons use to taunt my children that because they were Christians they were going to Hell...

Is that freedom of religion ???


48 posted on 07/12/2009 12:25:38 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: wildlybamboozled
How have Mormons offended you or yours?
 
 
Well... since you asked...
 

 

 
Statements by Mormon Leaders about Christian churches (made by many of the LDS Prophet-Presidents):
 
Joseph Smith stated that God told him: "they [other churches] were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).
 
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
 

 
 
 

55 posted on 07/12/2009 1:11:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: wildlybamboozled; Tennessee Nana
Bamboozled, it appears that you are very uninformed about your church.

JS never tried for president.

Joseph Smith for President

    In 1844 the Council of Fifty decided to run Joseph Smith for the presidency of the United States. Klaus J. Hansen said that "the Council of Fifty, while seriously contemplating the possibility of emigration, also considered a rather spectacular alternative, namely, to run its leader for the presidency of the United States in the campaign of 1844.... Smith and the Council of Fifty seems to have taken the election quite seriously, much more so, indeed, than both Mormons and anti-Mormons have heretofore suspected" (Quest for Empire, p.74).

    The elders of the church were actually called to electioneer for Joseph Smith. At a special meeting of the elders on April 9, 1844, Brigham Young declared: "It is now time to have a President of the United States. Elders will be sent to preach the Gospel and electioneer" (History of the Church, vol. 6, p.322). At the same meeting Heber C. Kimball affirmed: "... we design to send Elders to all the different States to get up meetings and protracted meetings, and electioneer for Joseph to be the next President" (Ibid., p.325). Mormon writer John J. Stewart refers to those who were sent to campaign as a "vast force of political missionaries" (Joseph Smith the Mormon Prophet, p.209).

    Under the date of January 29, 1844, this statement is attributed to Joseph Smith in the History of the Church, "If you attempt to accomplish this, you must send every man in the city who is able to speak in public throughout the land to electioneer.... There is oratory enough in the Church to carry me into the presidential chair the first slide" (vol. 6, p.188).

    On March 7, 1844, Joseph Smith was reported to have said: "When I get hold of the Eastern papers, and see how popular I am, I am afraid myself that I shall be elected..." (History of the Church, vol. 6, p.243).

    The fact that Joseph Smith would allow himself to be crowned king shows that he was driven by the idea of gaining power. It is very possible that Smith seriously believed that he would become president and that he would rule as king over the people of the United States. The attempt by Joseph Smith to become president seems to have been a treasonous plot to bring the United States Government under the rule of the priesthood. Klaus J. Hansen observed: "But what if, through a bold stroke, he could capture the United States for the Kingdom? The Council of Fifty thought there might be a chance and nominated the Mormon prophet for the Presidency of the United States" (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1966, p.67).

    George Miller, who had been a member of the Council of Fifty, recorded in a letter dated June 28, 1855:

It was further determined in Council that all the elders should set out on missions to all the States to get up an electorial [sic] ticket, and do everything in our power to have Joseph elected president. If we succeeded in making a majority of the voters converts to our faith, and elected Joseph president, in such an event the dominion of the Kingdom would be forever established in the United States; and if not successful, we could fall back on Texas, and be a kingdom notwithstanding (Letter by George Miller, as quoted in Joseph Smith and World Government, by Hyrum Andrus, 1963, p.54).

    Instead of going to Texas the Mormons settled in the Great Salt Lake valley. Hyrum Andrus admits that Smith had even "considered the alternative of establishing the Saints in the capacity of an independent nation, should all other alternatives fail" (Ibid., p.60).

    Before the election Joseph Smith was assassinated. Thus he was unable to establish the kingdom he had planned.

 

 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’[1] 

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

  • Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

  • Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

  • Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

  • As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

  • Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

  • Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

  • Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith’s followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith’s own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

  • Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith’s claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith  & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

 

"Maybe back then it was needed because our Church needed more children because every day more members were being KILLED and raped in the case of women, by mobs.

The actual number of Mormons who were killed solely because of their religious beliefs is very few, if any at all. Mormon leaders and apologists routinely cite a few historical incidents as "religious persecution," when in fact they really weren't.

For instance, the most oft-cited incident was the Haun's Mill massacre during the Missouri War of 1838. However, that occurred not because of religious persecution, but because of the Mormons' attempts to drive all non-Mormons out of western Missouri so they could have the area for themselves.

 
No one at Haun's Mill was killed because of Boggs' order.  Militia officers in the field didn't even receive Boggs' order until after the
Haun's Mill tragedy occurred.

The Haun's Mill massacre was committed on October 30 by an unauthorized militia
band who acted in retaliation for the Mormon Danite raids on their towns of
Millport, Gallatin, and Grinder's Fork (which had been ordered directly by
Joseph Smith, Jr.,) and the Danites' attack on other state militia troops at
Crooked River on October 25. " 

"No one knows who ordered the attack on Haun's Mill.  The militia companies
that participated in the assault belonged to General Parks' brigade, but he did
not issue the order.  The troops were organized under the command of Col.
Thomas Jennings, who apparently acted on his own initiative in leading the
attack.  It is possible that the Missourians received word of Governor Boggs'
extermination order and took it upon themselves to carry out the decree, but
they never offered this as a reason for the raid.


(One problem with this theory is that there is no evidence indicating when
Governor Boggs' order became known to the Missourians.  Generals Jackson,
Doniphan, and Lucas did not receive their orders from the governor until the
afternoon of 30 October, and they did not receive an official copy of the
extermination order until 31 October.)


"One of the attackers, Charles Ashby, a state legislator from Livingston, said
the Missourians attacked because Mormon dissenters fleeing into Livingston
warned them that the Saints at Haun's Mill were planning an invasion of their
county.  Local citizens decided they must act to prevent Mormon soldiers from
overruning Livingston County as they had done Daviess.  'We thought it best to
attack them first,' Ashby told fellow legislators.  'What we did was in our own
defence, and we had the right to do so.'


"The Livingston troops were joined by companies from Daviess and Carroll
counties,  Many of the Daviess men wanted to even the score for Mormon
depradations in their county.  Capts. Nehemiah Comstock and William Mann, whose
troops had been harassing Mormon emigrants and settlers, also brought their
troops into the field."

("The 1838 Mormon War in Missouri," Stephen LeSeuer, U. of Missouri Press, pp.
163-164.)

Another case the mormons refer to is the murder of apostle Parley P. Pratt. Most mormons believe that Pratt was "assassinated by an anti-Mormon while on a mission in Arkansas," but the fact is that Pratt was killed by the estranged husband of one of Pratt's "plural wives." The killer, Hector McLean, didn't want his children by his wife, Eleanor, to be taken to Utah to be raised in polygamy, so he lured Pratt to Arkansas and murdered him.

Whatever the total number of Mormons killed by "persecutors" throughout the entire history of the church, it's far less than the 120 innocent non-Mormon emigrants whom the Mormons massacred in one day at Mountain Meadows in 1857.

Perhaps some study would be of help to youo.

56 posted on 07/12/2009 1:29:56 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (There is no justice at the Dept. of Justice when Black Panthers are cleared for terrorizing voters.)
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