The Doctrine of Purgatory [Ecumenical]

Catholic Culture ^ | 12/01 | Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.

[Mr Rogers]

1 Corinthians 8

1Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.

4Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

7However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

[bdeaner]

Romans 7:1-4:
Do you not know, brethren--for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law is binding on a person only during his life? Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives; but if her husband dies she is discharged from the law concerning her husband. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God.

St. John Chrysostom (c. 347–407) says that the comparison which St. Paul makes here shows great respet for the Mosaic Law:

"Paul speaks of the Law as a husband, and of the faithful as a wife. But his conclusion is not consistent with what he said earlier, because he should go on to conclude: the Law will rule you no more, because the Law is dead. However,[...] in order not to provoke the Jews he simply says, 'You have died to the Law'" (Hom. on Rom, 12).

Prior to the Resurrection, St. Paul and those he is addressing were subject to the Law (represented by the husband). Once they have been given a share in the death of Christ, through Baptism (cf. 6:3-4), they are "dead", and therefore they are free of the Law--free, however, to do good, to yield the fruit of a holy life, that is, to "bear fruit" for God, by being united to Christ.

Now, let's look even more closely at what St. Paul wrote in this passage. In verse 4, he says that we "have died to the law through the Body of Christ"! What is the Body of Christ? What does it mean to "die" to the old Mosaic Law and to be "born again" in the Body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 12:12-14 describes it like this:
"The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many."

To die to the Law through the Body of Christ is to become part of the Church. There is organization to the body of Christ, as described in Ephesians 1:22-23, "And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way."

1 Corinthians 12:27-28 also says, "Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues." Every Christian possesses a gift and is called to use it in service within the body to build up the body of Christ, to strengthen the body and to carry out its purpose within the world. Each member of the body of Christ is also called to serve the church through his or her natural gifts and abilities.

Let's read further:

Romans 7:5
While we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.

In this as in other Pauline texts, the term "flesh" refers to human weakness and therefore to man's condition after original sin, the origin of his concupiscence, that is, the disordered passions which encourage him to sin.
7:6
But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.

The grace of Christ liberates man from the tyranny of sin. After Adam's original sin, no one, without grace, could avoid sin completely. With the help of grace a person can aspire to serve God of his own free will, not out of fear of punishment but out of filial love (cf. 2 Cor. 3:6), not because of the threats contained in the Old Testament but with the new energy bestowed by divine filiation. This is the freedom of spirit which Christians practice: they do what God wants because they too want it!

As St. Augustine wrote in De spiritu et littera,

"We [...] hold that man's will is helped by God to act correctly in many ways, because man, in addition to having been created with free will and having doctrine which teaches him how he ought to live, has also been given the Holy Spirit. The Spirit inspires his soul with love for highest and immutable Good, that is, God, [...] so that with this grace, which is as it were a pledge of the future free gift, he might be stirred to unite himself to his Creator and have a burning desire to share in the true light. And so he will receive fulfilment from him who gave him his life."

In Romans 7, Paul continues in verses 7-13:

What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet, if it had not been for the law, I should not have known sin. I should not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, finding opportunity in the commandment, wrought in me all kinds of covetousness. Apart from the law sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died; the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, finding opportunity in the commandment, deceived me and by it killed me. So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and good.

Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, working death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandmentmight become sinful beyond measure.

Now we have the full context of this passage. The newness of the Christian life contrasts with the letter of the Law of Moses. The Law brought on death (v. 5), even though it was not in itself bad (cf. Rom 3:20; 4:15; 5:13, 20). The Apostle mentions two other factors along with the Law--sin and man himself. He shows how these interconnect: the "Law" is the Law of Moses, although it can also refer to the commandment God gave our first parents (v. 11); "sin" is presented as a seducer opposed to God, and it can also mean Adam's original sin and all that flowed from it, especially covetousness--evil desires, or concupiscence (vv. 7-8); the "I" in vv. 7-13 can be taken as meaning Paul himself before his conversion, or mankind in general before the Redemption, of Jews subject to the Mosaic Law.

The Law is not bad; on the contrary, it is holy, just and good (cf. v. 12). It is, St. John Chrysostom suggests, like a doctor who forbids a sick person to eat something harmful: if despite this the sick person eats it, it is not the doctor who is to be blamed. The Law is good because it is a gift from God, it is directed towards him, it reveals the right order established by divine wisdom, it prohibits all evils, it helps man to see where his duty lies and, above all, it prepares the way for the coming of the Redeemer (Rom. 3:19f; 5:20; Gal 3:19,24). However, the Law is not enough: it does not equip a person to conquer sin. This inadequacy of the Law paradoxically shows up its value: it leads us to have recourse to Christ's grace and supernatural resources.

In this connection the Fathers of the Church insist that the Law only brings on sin by making people realize the gravity of their actions, thereby increasing their guilt. "Before the Law," St. John Chrysostom comments, "sinners well knew that they were sinning; but after the Law they know it much better [...]. Thus, one is much mroe at fault when one sins not only against the light of reason but also against that light and against the Law, which adds a still greater clarity to the light of reason."

But this should not make us feel pessimistic. In spite of everything the consciousness of the evil of sin which the Law provides leads us to seek the grace of God. "By this promise, that is, through the help of divine grace," St. Augustine says, "the Law is perfectly obeyed...The Law was given so that grace might be sought; and the grace was given so that the Law might be obeyed" (De spiritu et littera).

Given this reading of St. Paul's letter, purgatory makes sense, because through grace we yearn to be obedient to the Lord's will, and to live up to his ideal for us as members of the Body of Christ living in faith, hope and charity. To the extent that we fall short of fulfilling our role in the Body of Christ, through temptation or otherwise, we suffer the pangs of regret by which we can again seek the Lord's grace to become still more holy. The anguish we experience has a purifying function, by which we grow closer to our Lord, in preparation for the beatific vision.

[Nosterrex]

If you mean the autographs, those don't exist. If you mean the original languages, there are plenty of Greek NT Bibles around as well as the Vulgata. As far as I know, the Roman Catholic Church doesn't print Bibles. The United Bible Society is a good place to start.

Ever since St. Jerome translated the Bible into Latin from the Greek, the Vulgata was the ONLY version of the Bible that you were allowed to read. The problem with the Vulgata is that it mistranslated the Greek and led to the development of odd teachings, such as marriage as a sacrament. It is interesting that in the modern translation of the Vulgata, marriage is no longer called a sacramentum but a mysterion.

During the Renaissance, you had a rebirth of the classical languages, including Greek. When scholars started reading the original language, they realized that the Vulgata was not accurate and was misleading in many areas. Without the rebirth of classical education, the Reformation would never have occurred. The Eastern Orthodox Church has always allowed the liturgy and the readings to be done in the native language of the people. It was only the Roman Catholic Church that insisted that the liturgy be conducted in Latin and only the Vulgata be used. Today, the Roman Catholic Church has completely reversed itself (which is not unusual). The Roman Catholic Church burned people at the stake for reading the Bible in their own language, but now it's perfectly acceptable. The Mass can now be conducted in the language of the people. Nearly all of the English versions of the Bible are translated from the original languages, not the Vulgata. Textual criticism has greatly improved since the days of St. Jerome, and no one, not even the Roman Catholics, us the Vulgata as a primary source.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Yes, I had already posted how there were disagreements regarding this between Paul and (James, Peter and John.) Pauld doesn't seem to think too highly of these pillars.

Galatians 2:6,9
⁶   But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

⁹   And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
¹⁰   Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Paul must have forgotten about this part:
²⁰   But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

[Mr Rogers]

St. John Chrysostom (c. 347–407) says that the comparison which St. Paul makes here shows great respet for the Mosaic Law:

"Paul speaks of the Law as a husband, and of the faithful as a wife. But his conclusion is not consistent with what he said earlier, because he should go on to conclude: the Law will rule you no more, because the Law is dead. However,[...] in order not to provoke the Jews he simply says, 'You have died to the Law'" (Hom. on Rom, 12).

If I have to choose between John Chrysostom (c. 347–407) and Paul, I'll go with Paul. It isn't the Law that dies, but we that die to the Law. The Law goes on, directing men to Christ, praise God! And like Paul, I'm convinced the Law is perfect.

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; 8 the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes; 9the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether. 10More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. 11Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.

The Law was given so that grace might be sought; and the grace was given so that the Law might be obeyed"

We died to the Law. However, "I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Given this reading of St. Paul's letter, purgatory makes sense, because through grace we yearn to be obedient to the Lord's will, and to live up to his ideal for us as members of the Body of Christ living in faith, hope and charity. To the extent that we fall short of fulfilling our role in the Body of Christ, through temptation or otherwise, we suffer the pangs of regret by which we can again seek the Lord's grace to become still more holy. The anguish we experience has a purifying function, by which we grow closer to our Lord, in preparation for the beatific vision.

I agree, except for the part about Purgatory making sense. For when we die, the flesh dies. The battle will be finished in our lives.

51Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

"Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Given the choice of Paul or James, Peter and John, I pick James, Peter and John.

[Kolokotronis]

“If there is no purgatory, per Orthodox doctrine, there is no reason to pray for the dead. They would be in Hell without possibility of redemption, or in Heaven, without need of redemption. Praying for the dead implies the doctrine of purgatory, it seems to me, whether or not one rejects the term.”

No so. After the “Particular Judgment”, the soul remains in the “Place of the Dead” or “Hades” or the “Bosom of Abraham”; in any event, the soul rests, we hope,”...in a place of light, in a place of green pasture, in a place of refreshment, from where pain and sorrow and mourning are fled away.” until the Last Jugment. And in the end, b, it is only by God’s mercy that any join the sheep.

[bdeaner]

Unless you believe that believers in Heaven will behave thus

Is it not a parable about heaven, not about what literally happens in heaven?

[bdeaner]

No so. After the “Particular Judgment”, the soul remains in the “Place of the Dead” or “Hades” or the “Bosom of Abraham”; in any event, the soul rests, we hope,”...in a place of light, in a place of green pasture, in a place of refreshment, from where pain and sorrow and mourning are fled away.” until the Last Jugment. And in the end, b, it is only by God’s mercy that any join the sheep.

Wow, that sure seems like hair-splitting to me. The process of pain and sorrow and mourning being 'fled away' doesn't seem to necessarily conflict with purgatory -- a purification by which temporal consequences of sin -- pain, sorrow, mourning, etc. -- are also 'fled away,' in a certain sense, through purgation.

[bdeaner]

If I have to choose between John Chrysostom (c. 347–407) and Paul, I'll go with Paul.

St. John Chrysostom is not contradicting Paul; he's performing an exegesis of Paul's letter, just as you are doing. My exegesis, which draws upon Chrysostom and Augustine's work on Paul's letter to the Romans, is an illustration of the Catholic reading of Paul's letter. What's interesting is that our readings are very similar.

I agree, except for the part about Purgatory making sense. For when we die, the flesh dies. The battle will be finished in our lives.

Well, yes, the temptation to sin is gone, but the soul lives on and here is the key: the soul does not forget his or her sins! The regrets can live on after death, but worse still, in death, there is no longer antyhing that can be done to repent for them! A temporal consequence of that unresolved sin -- among the saved -- is pangs of regret, that are purified and cleansed as of by "fire" in the burning heat of God's love.

Why is this so objectionable to so many Protestants? I think it is beautiful. All suffering takes on a redemptive quality; I can offer it up to the cross and participate in the redemptive power of the Lord's sacrifice--which is actually very humbling, and unites me to our Lord in profound humility. Is it not in our brokenness that we come to most truly know the grace of Our Lord's infinite sacrifice? At it's most theologically pure, the doctrine of purgatory is nothing more than an explication of the implication of the profound insight into the Lord's redemptive sacrifice and our participation in His sacrificial Body as a member of His Church, both here and in the next life.

[Mr Rogers]

You aren’t given the choice. It is all, or none. As Luther points out, James and Paul agree. And Peter was the one who found it out, and John who wrote the 3rd chapter...

[Kolokotronis]

“Wow, that sure seems like hair-splitting to me.”

Really? Its what The Church has always believed. Whatever hair splitting may have gone on finds its origins in the innovative (and lucrative) theological monstrosity of purgatory which was, as you must know, among the precipitating causes of the Great Schism and later on, the shattering of the Church in the West in the Protestant Reformation.

One cannot believe in something like purgatory and be an Orthodox Christian.

[boatbums]

I think we have a deep disagreement regarding the purpose of suffering in a Christian's life and the world in general.

First of all, why is there suffering in this world, why do the innocent suffer, why do bad things happen to good people, etc.? We live in a fallen world. Because of the sin of Adam, this world (the physical world) as well as humans, became subject to death. There is degeneration, disorder, degradation, disease, death, rot, rust, weeds, putrification, decomposition, etc. It is a consequence of a fallen world. It is never to be mistaken for heaven.

Do innocents suffer? Yes, both as a result of actions of human depravity (abortion, child abuse, murder,etc.) and the fact that this is a world that will never be perfect again. In fact God says that he will create a new world one day that will be perfect. There will no longer be pain or suffering or tears. God is certainly grieved by this.

Secondly, what is God's purpose for suffering in a Christian's life? I believe, rather than a punishment for, or revenge, or getting even with sins, it is instead a teaching mechanism. An example: If I hammer a nail into my nice new dining room table, I can bewail my stupidity and remove the nail but the table will still have a hole in it and can never be the same. The consequence of my action is the marring of the table, the loss of its beauty, its newness. If I cheat on my husband, the consequence is the guilt, shame, remorse, the loss of his trust and the possible end of my marriage. I suffer because of my sin but only in this life. As a Christian, even a grave sin such as adultery is paid for by the blood of Christ. I can never pay the eternal price for even one sin, much less all the ones I have committed or will commit. This by no means is meant to say I have a license to sin. Because my Heavenly Father knows everything and nothing is hidden from His sight. He will discipline, not punish. And this discipline is not pleasant. He brings this correction because He loves me and wants what is best for my life. He also wants the return of fellowship that sin has cut off. Another purpose of suffering in a believer's life is to strengthen faith. I have known loss and need. I know what being dead broke and hungry feels like. I also have seen how God provides, even miraculously, when I trust Him. I have a promise from the Lord that no trial or temptation will come that he will not give me the grace and strength to endure and make it through. Trials and sufferings make me stronger emotionally and spiritually. When others see a Christian suffer without complaining or saying, "Why me?" , they can be influenced to seek the reasons why in spite of pain a person still trusts God, still has peace. That people were martyred for their faith and endured the most horrible deaths is a testimony to their true commitment to God.

These are just a few points where I wanted to express how we see suffering differently. You may see it as a co-payment for sin, I see it entirely with a greater purpose.

[Dajjal]

bumpus ad summum

[boatbums]

Regarding Luther: I don't know of any Protestant that says Martin Luther was infallible or any ordinary man, for that matter. His writings are certainly informative and well reasoned, like Calvin's - but no one thinks they are correct on everything they ever said. They grew in knowledge just as you say the Magisteriam doesn't know all things.

I don't recall ANY of Jesus’ words that prove He honored the Deuterocannonical Books. He did, however quote frequently from just about every other book in the OT. Do you have reference verses where Jesus quotes the Deuterocannonical Books?

[bdeaner]

Its what The Church has always believed.

You are really very wrong on this. The Hebrews clearly believed in purgatory, as is evidenced in Maccabees, as well as in other pre-Christian Jewish works, such as one which records that Adam will be in mourning "until the day of dispensing punishment in the last years, when I will turn his sorrow into joy" (The Life of Adam and Eve 46–7). Orthodox Jews to this day believe in the final purification, and for eleven months after the death of a loved one, they pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Kaddish for their loved one’s purification.

There is much evidence for the doctrine of Purgatory among the early Church Fathers.

The Acts of Paul and Thecla

"And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again received her [Thecla]. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: ‘Mother, you shall have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the righteous’" (Acts of Paul and Thecla [A.D. 160]).

Abercius

"The citizen of a prominent city, I erected this while I lived, that I might have a resting place for my body. Abercius is my name, a disciple of the chaste Shepherd who feeds his sheep on the mountains and in the fields, who has great eyes surveying everywhere, who taught me the faithful writings of life. Standing by, I, Abercius, ordered this to be inscribed: Truly, I was in my seventy-second year. May everyone who is in accord with this and who understands it pray for Abercius" (Epitaph of Abercius [A.D. 190]).

The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity

"[T]hat very night, this was shown to me in a vision: I [Perpetua] saw Dinocrates going out from a gloomy place, where also there were several others, and he was parched and very thirsty, with a filthy countenance and pallid color, and the wound on his face which he had when he died. This Dinocrates had been my brother after the flesh, seven years of age, who died miserably with disease. . . . For him I had made my prayer, and between him and me there was a large interval, so that neither of us could approach to the other . . . and [I] knew that my brother was in suffering. But I trusted that my prayer would bring help to his suffering; and I prayed for him every day until we passed over into the prison of the camp, for we were to fight in the camp-show. Then . . . I made my prayer for my brother day and night, groaning and weeping that he might be granted to me. Then, on the day on which we remained in fetters, this was shown to me: I saw that the place which I had formerly observed to be in gloom was now bright; and Dinocrates, with a clean body well clad, was finding refreshment. . . . [And] he went away from the water to play joyously, after the manner of children, and I awoke. Then I understood that he was translated from the place of punishment" (The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity 2:3–4 [A.D. 202]).

Tertullian

"We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death—birth into eternal life]" (The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]).

"A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice" (Monogamy 10:1–2 [A.D. 216]).

Cyprian of Carthage

"The strength of the truly believing remains unshaken; and with those who fear and love God with their whole heart, their integrity continues steady and strong. For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace [i.e., reconciliation] is given. Yet virginity is not therefore deficient in the Church, nor does the glorious design of continence languish through the sins of others. The Church, crowned with so many virgins, flourishes; and chastity and modesty preserve the tenor of their glory. Nor is the vigor of continence broken down because repentance and pardon are facilitated to the adulterer. It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory; it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord" (Letters 51[55]:20 [A.D. 253]).

Cyril of Jerusalem

"Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice is laid out" (Catechetical Lectures 23:5:9 [A.D. 350]).

Gregory of Nyssa

"If a man distinguish in himself what is peculiarly human from that which is irrational, and if he be on the watch for a life of greater urbanity for himself, in this present life he will purify himself of any evil contracted, overcoming the irrational by reason. If he has inclined to the irrational pressure of the passions, using for the passions the cooperating hide of things irrational, he may afterward in a quite different manner be very much interested in what is better, when, after his departure out of the body, he gains knowledge of the difference between virtue and vice and finds that he is not able to partake of divinity until he has been purged of the filthy contagion in his soul by the purifying fire" (Sermon on the Dead [A.D. 382]).

John Chrysostom

"Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice [Job 1:5], why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them" (Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5 [A.D. 392]).

"Weep for those who die in their wealth and who with all their wealth prepared no consolation for their own souls, who had the power to wash away their sins and did not will to do it. Let us weep for them, let us assist them to the extent of our ability, let us think of some assistance for them, small as it may be, yet let us somehow assist them. But how, and in what way? By praying for them and by entreating others to pray for them, by constantly giving alms to the poor on their behalf. Not in vain was it decreed by the apostles that in the awesome mysteries remembrance should be made of the departed. They knew that here there was much gain for them, much benefit. When the entire people stands with hands uplifted, a priestly assembly, and that awesome sacrificial Victim is laid out, how, when we are calling upon God, should we not succeed in their defense? But this is done for those who have departed in the faith, while even the catechumens are not reckoned as worthy of this consolation, but are deprived of every means of assistance except one. And what is that? We may give alms to the poor on their behalf" (Homilies on Philippians 3:9–10 [A.D. 402]).

Augustine

"There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended" (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

"But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death" (ibid., 172:2).

"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment" (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

"That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire" (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).

"The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death" (ibid., 29:109).

Obviously, based on this evidence along (and there is more), the Church has always believed in Purgatory. If the Orthodox Catholics reject it, I chalk it up to the unfortunate error that results when part of the Body of Christ rejects the infallible authority of Peter and His successors. The consequence of that rejection, for the Orthodox, is a slipperly slope into doctrinal error and confusion. I realize you may take offense to that remark, but I wouldn't be Roman Catholic if I believed otherwise, and I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

[boatbums]

I love the definition of forgiveness as: Giving up my right to get even with someone.

[Marysecretary]

There are ALWAYS consequences for any sin. And it’s in THIS life. If you guys want to go to purgatory, God bless ya. I’m glad we protestants don’t have to face that...LOL.

[Nosterrex]

I don't enjoy confrontation, for I would much rather discuss similarities rather than differences. I can't think of another doctrine in the Roman Catholic Church that creates more controversy than purgatory. I went back and looked in the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” to see what it states about the teaching. The whole topic takes less than one full page. You would think that such an important doctrine as purgatory would take far more explanation or attestation than two-thirds of a page.

The teaching is basically that purgatory is purification of the ELECT, so that they may ACHIEVE the holiness necessary to enter heaven. It is based upon the tradition of the Church in which she issued prayers for the dead.

This creates a real problem. First of all, only the Roman Catholic Church has a doctrine of purgatory, so I don't know what tradition it is talking about. Extrapolating from the prayers for the dead the doctrine of purgatory is a huge leap.

The Catechism did list three bible verses: 1 Cor. 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7; Matt 12:31. The first two refer to WORKS being tested by God's judgment, not people. Works based upon false doctrine will not pass God's judgment. Some would include the doctrine of purgatory as being consumed by fire. The interpretation of Matthew 12:31 is so absurd that that I can't believe that it was included. There is a difference between exegesis and eisegesis. The latter is where one reads meaning INTO Scripture rather than obtaining the meaning FROM the Scriptures. Trying to read the doctrine of purgatory INTO these verses is counterproductive. They simply don't support the doctrine. The real issue is that the Lutheran Church and Roman Catholic Church have a cohesive or organic theological system. None of these doctrines exist in isolation. They fit within a matrix. If you change one doctrine, it impacts all the others. The problem isn't just purgatory, it's the whole doctrinal system. You can't talk about purgatory without bringing in the issues of authority or revelation for example. Although I have disagreements with the Roman Catholic Church, I have never doubted that it is part of the Christian church. There is much to appreciate and cherish about her, and I share many of her beliefs.

[Marysecretary]

Man, your church makes it so hard for you to reach heaven. Repent, confess your sins and let God cleanse you HERE on earth. There will BE no purgatory, only heaven or hell. I want to see you in Heaven.