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To: Making_Sense [Rob W. Case]; Alex Murphy; Lee N. Field; raynearhood
The nation of Israel’s existence within this very age was birthed by a promise, and protected by a promise. As long as the nation of Israel exists, God once again proves to the world that he exists, and that His will, will prevail.

There is no biblical evidence that the modern secular state of Israel is the fulfillment of prophejcy. All the prophecies speak of restoration of the faithful remnant. Amos 9 that was quoted is a perfect example.

11 "On that day I will raise up The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, And repair its damages; I will raise up its ruins, And rebuild it as in the days of old; 12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, And all the Gentiles who are called by My name," Says the Lord who does this thing.
In Acts 15 James quotes this passage as evidence that the promise of God to include the gentiles within the covenant community was being fulfilled. The evidence was faith. By quoting Amos in the context of gentiles coming to faith in Christ in the 1st century James makes it clear that these are not fleshly promises being fulfilled, but spiritual. The unbelieving Jews were looking to the flesh. "But the just shall live by faith."

But modern Israel is in unbelief. They hate the Son of God and deny the covenant in His blood. Israel cannot in any way fulfill prophecy, except to show how the remnant is being saved, by faith in Christ. The true offspring of Abraham are the remnant who have experienced spiritual circumcision.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3)

7 posted on 08/11/2009 6:29:26 PM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: Making_Sense [Rob W. Case]; Alex Murphy; Lee N. Field; raynearhood
You wrote:

“I am a deep researcher, and staunch advocate for truth, and amidst this, there is a sense that things especially relating to prophecy are coming to a head.”

“As long as the nation of Israel exists, God once again proves to the world that he exists, and that His will, will prevail.”

So, are you saying that if the modern, secular state of Israel disappeared tomorrow in a blaze of Islamic thermonuclear glory, that would be proof that God does not exist or that His will does not prevail?

How does you claim compare to the truth?

8 posted on 08/13/2009 10:10:56 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: topcat54

No biblical evidence that the modern secular state of Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy? It most certainly is the fulfillment of prophecy. Amos 9 just doesn’t cover the remnant, but covers Israel’s destruction, and restoration with the return of the Jews who were in exile. There was a man who goes to my church who argues that the Jews have no right to the nation of Israel. His logic rests on the idea that the Jews broke their covenant with God. I disagree. God is not going to break a promise, which to him is like a covenant, if they are going to fall away. That is incorrect.

Also consider…. From a purely scientific standpoint, there is no logical reason whatsoever to explain why the Jewish people exist today. None whatsoever! Satan most definitely knew the promise that the Jews were supposed to return to their land in the last days. So, he did everything in his power to try and stop that from happening, the most intense being his campaign to exterminate the Jews via the horrid political campaign that led to the holocaust. Against all odds, the Jews returned supernaturally to their land in 1948. This is the most interesting thing. The Jewish people did not just connect with each other somehow from around the world to make it happen. They were, as the Bible says, “planted” by God to return to Israel, which was nothing more than a desert at that time. Why would they come from being scattered among the nations to a desert if something wasn’t in the works? How is it not in perfect alignment with the parable of the fig tree spoken by Jesus which communicates the idea that the desert will bloom? That has happened. That has happened both spiritually, physically, and politically. Take for example, trade. Not only has the nation of Israel made the desert bloom, but they are also recognized by the international community as a source for farming and trading food. At my domestic job (I work in produce), we had red peppers come in that said “Made in Israel.” I also have COOL (Country of Origin Labeling) stickers, one of which I took and stuck within the mini- notebook I carry everywhere (for the purpose of taking notes) to serve as a reminder that prophecy is being fulfilled and that God’s will, will prevail.

Also consider….
Isaiah 66:8 (New International Version)
8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.

May 14th, 1948, the United Nations recognized Israel as a nation as also President Truman in the United States. The state of Israel was born in a day.

In the future, I hope to put together a post called Israel & Prophecy because everything rests on the nation of Israel. The covenant that is made between ISRAEL and the Antichrist is what will trigger the event known as the rapture.

Even though the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah, the story isn’t over regarding them. They will find out the hard way. They will go through a process in which the one they were tricked into thinking was their messiah (the anti-Christ) is out to kill them, and when Christ returns, they will see first hand, the one whom they rejected. Zechariah 12:10 speaks more of this.

As for Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3)

That is when one accept Christ and has the Holy Spirit within them. When Christ is in your heart, then all are one in the spirit, there are no physical divisions. Physical divisions are a product of the world, pure and simple.

I want to be careful saying this, but I think that Orthodox Jews are a bit behind in understanding the bigger picture relating to Israel and God’s promises within it. They still are bent on old traditions, even though Christ freed them from the burdens. As born-again believers we have a stake in the New Jerusalem chronicled in Revelation. But there are some things yet to be done in the Old Jerusalem. Israel’s coming back into existence was destined to occur at the time it did to let loose the moral conditions that would seep into the political environment, and in turn work to annihilate Israel once and for all.


9 posted on 08/15/2009 10:21:48 PM PDT by Making_Sense [Rob W. Case]
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To: topcat54

It’s sooooo

comforting to see the usual

UNBIBLICAL UNMITIGATED NONSENSE BLATHER

from the prophetically clueless chorus.

It’s a wonderful marker of where folks don’t need to bother in terms of interpreting END TIMES signs of the times.

There’s now a reasonably clear number of screen names that can be easily scrolled on past unless one wants a good laugh.


53 posted on 08/24/2009 6:20:50 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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