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Muslims are the top card in God trumps
The Telegraph UK ^ | August 27th, 2009 | Jonathan Wynne-Jones

Posted on 08/27/2009 7:56:51 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

Top trumps appears to have suddenly become the in thing in the world of religion. It used to be ferraris and lamborghinis.

Now a Christian version of Top Trumps, called Testament Trumps, has been released, apparently to help children learn more about biblical characters. And not to be outdone, the humanists have also launched their own version of Top Trumps, called God Trumps.

A pack has been sent to me from the New Humanist magazine, and it’s brilliantly satirical, as you’d expect. With the caricatures by the Guardian’s excellent cartoonist, Martin Rowson, it pitches Catholics against Anglicans and pagans against Mormons.

It goes without saying that the Anglicans, represented by a jam-holding woman cleric who looks suspiciously like June Osborne, the dean of Salisbury, are thumped by the Catholics, beaten in every category, from age and wealth to follower dedication and daffiest doctrine.

In fact the Church of England, whose followers are summed up as “hobbyists, hedge-betters, people who like a song on a Sunday morning”, is one of the worst cards in the whole pack. It is the Reliant Robin of the religion world. Only the Rastafarians fare worse.

Although it’s debatable whether scoring high is actually that desirable, particularly when it comes to daffiest doctrine.

Born again Christians come top in this category for their belief in the Rapture, when they believe Jesus will return with trumpets, a gathering of saints etc. They score 10 out of 10 along with scientologists, Jehovah’s witnesses, and Sunni and Shia muslims.

Rather unsurprisingly, secularists are deemed to have the least daffy doctrine, which is “no rules, just individual morality”. Their weapon of choice is “logic, reason, science, sarcasm and Dawkins”, which scores a healthy 7 out of 10, only being beaten by born again Christians with their “threats

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Islam; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: coe; europeanmuslims
Top trump is the Muslim: “Well done to the extremist section of this faith for making it impossible to have any kind of reasoned debate, or even a good-humoured laugh around this subject. You trump everyone - even the integrity of this game!”


1 posted on 08/27/2009 7:56:51 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

I’ve never heard of “top trumps.” What are they?


2 posted on 08/27/2009 7:58:56 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Timcheh 'et-zekher `Amaleq mitachat hashamayim; lo tiskhach!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Whatever they are, this version is hilarious!


3 posted on 08/27/2009 8:04:20 AM PDT by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word. -- R A Heinlein)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Here's the wikipedia article on Top Trumps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Trumps

4 posted on 08/27/2009 8:06:06 AM PDT by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word. -- R A Heinlein)
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To: Alex Murphy
secularists are deemed to have the least daffy doctrine, which is “no rules, just individual morality”

which allows them to have any kind of disgusting or experimental or alternative lifestyle they want as long as it feels good or is self actualizing.

5 posted on 08/27/2009 8:23:03 AM PDT by mjp (pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, independence, limited government, capitalism})
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To: Alex Murphy

Okay, the folks who believe in the Rapture believe the end times, the times leading up to, and even more so after the Rapture, are going to be largely times of war, death, pestilence and famine, economic upheaval, widespread Christian apostasy, and the rise of a dominant international religion notable for extremely low intolerance for dissent from the faith, access to (and use of) state-of-the-art means of identifying, isolating and oppressing non-believers, and a taste for violence in enforcing the faith, and particularly for beheading. You may think they’re wrong. But if you’re actually paying attention to the world around you, you would be forced to conclude that they’re not completely daffy.


6 posted on 08/27/2009 8:38:41 AM PDT by RichInOC (Jesus is coming back soon...and man, is He ticked off. (I'm trying to keep it clean.))
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To: GL of Sector 2814

Some might think the resurrection is not a laughing matter. Laugh at it while you can, but I think there are plenty of other things to legitimately laugh at.


7 posted on 08/27/2009 8:44:10 AM PDT by naturalized
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To: RichInOC
What century out of the last dozen or so hasn't been a time of war, death, pestilence, famine, economic upheaval, etc....?
8 posted on 08/27/2009 8:45:45 AM PDT by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word. -- R A Heinlein)
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To: naturalized
Some might think the resurrection is not a laughing matter. Laugh at it while you can, but I think there are plenty of other things to legitimately laugh at.

The point is, they're making fun of everyone, goring all the oxes and mocking all the sacred cows (literally). Good for them.

9 posted on 08/27/2009 8:48:30 AM PDT by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word. -- R A Heinlein)
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To: mjp
secularists are deemed to have the least daffy doctrine, which is “no rules, just individual morality”

which allows them to have any kind of disgusting or experimental or alternative lifestyle they want as long as it feels good or is self actualizing.

Fine with me, as long as I don't have to pay for it.

10 posted on 08/27/2009 8:52:33 AM PDT by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word. -- R A Heinlein)
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To: GL of Sector 2814

It’s sad how unloving people can be, even those who claim to believe that Jesus was at least a wise man. When I was young I used to love mocking. It made me feel powerful. I tend to think now that in reality, mockery enslaves the mocker. I’m trying to grow up, and I am trying to break the habit. You might do good to try as well.

I think the mockers whom you admire haven’t done what you say they have. There are plenty of idol worshippers they haven’t mocked. But then again, there are plenty of idol worshippers. I think Elijah did a better job mocking some of them. If there is such a thing. But plenty suffered at Elijah’s hands. Jesus really is the only way.

It’s sad to see someone like you try to cut the sacred out of the story of their lives. It leaves so much out. The things you thirst and hunger for can only be found in the spaces you have left.

God bless you. I hope you do better than Bono.


11 posted on 08/27/2009 9:49:16 AM PDT by naturalized
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To: Alex Murphy

Do they come with a sheet of bubble gum in the package? If no gum I’m not interested.


12 posted on 08/27/2009 9:49:26 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Tar and feather the sons of bi#ches! Ride them out of town on a rail!)
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To: GL of Sector 2814
The point is, they're making fun of everyone, goring all the oxes and mocking all the sacred cows (literally).

Except the atheists/secularists, of course, who come out smelling like roses. The whole point of the game is to mock religion in all of its flavors.

13 posted on 08/27/2009 10:09:58 AM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (Two blogs for the price of none!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Do they come with a sheet of bubble gum in the package? If no gum I’m not interested.

If you want gum, you'll have to look elsewhere.

Related thread:
Good Friday, Passover, Easter: PR for Bible trading cards


14 posted on 08/27/2009 10:11:54 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (One man, alone! Betrayed by the country he loves, now its last hope in their final hour of need!)
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
Except the atheists/secularists, of course, who come out smelling like roses.

I wouldn't exactly say that.


15 posted on 08/27/2009 10:17:20 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (One man, alone! Betrayed by the country he loves, now its last hope in their final hour of need!)
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To: Alex Murphy
I would consider the folks who did that last one extremely self-deluded.
16 posted on 08/27/2009 10:20:23 AM PDT by RichInOC (Jesus is coming back soon...and man, is He ticked off. (I'm trying to keep it clean.))
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To: Alex Murphy
Securlarist/Atheist/humanist

Weapon of choice: Communism, killed 100+ million in the 20th century 10/10

17 posted on 08/27/2009 10:20:40 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (The way to destroy a countercultural movement is to have white people start liking it.)
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To: Alex Murphy

I wasn’t talking about the Agnostic card, but rather the Secularist/Atheist/Humanist card. I don’t see anything on the latter card that can be construed as mockery (other than the illustration).


18 posted on 08/27/2009 10:21:36 AM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (Two blogs for the price of none!)
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To: Alex Murphy
Age Shortly after the Creation 9/10
Wealth Controls most government funds in the non-Muslim world 10/10
Follower Dedication Will deny reality if it contradicts their free thought 10/10
Daffiest Doctrine Actually believes the crap on the original card 10/10
Weapon of Choice Sarcasm and Dawkins...and a death grip on most of the government and academic complex of the non-Muslim world 10/10
Easily Offended? Fred Phelps has a better sense of humor 10/10
19 posted on 08/27/2009 10:35:31 AM PDT by RichInOC (Jesus is coming back soon...and man, is He ticked off. (I'm trying to keep it clean.))
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To: All
Here are all 24 cards:

Agnostic
Secularist/Humanist/Atheist
Sunni
Shia
Muslim
Sikh
Hindu
Jain
Buddhist
Zoroastrian
Pagan
Church of England
Methodist
Born Again Christian - All and Any Denominations
Mormon
Jehovah's Witness
Scientologist
Bahai
Rastafarian
Satanist
Catholic
Eastern Orthodox
Orthodox Jewish
Jedi

20 posted on 08/27/2009 10:40:51 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (One man, alone! Betrayed by the country he loves, now its last hope in their final hour of need!)
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To: naturalized
It’s sad how unloving people can be, even those who claim to believe that Jesus was at least a wise man. When I was young I used to love mocking. It made me feel powerful. I tend to think now that in reality, mockery enslaves the mocker. I’m trying to grow up, and I am trying to break the habit. You might do good to try as well.

Mockery "enslaves" the mocker? That's a wee bit hyperbolic, don't you think? In any case, mockery (when done well) doesn't make me feel powerful, it simply amuses me. That being the case, I see no need to stop mocking things on occasion.

I think the mockers whom you admire haven’t done what you say they have. There are plenty of idol worshippers they haven’t mocked. But then again, there are plenty of idol worshippers. I think Elijah did a better job mocking some of them. If there is such a thing. But plenty suffered at Elijah’s hands. Jesus really is the only way.

A quick estimate off the top of my head is that the 24 cards in this set cover at least 90% of the world's religions (as an overall percentage of adherents). The only ones I can think of that they missed of any significance would be Taoists and Shintos. Just who are these "idol worshippers" of which you speak?

I don't understand the significance of Elijah in this context, but I'm not overly familiar with the Old Testament.

It’s sad to see someone like you try to cut the sacred out of the story of their lives. It leaves so much out. The things you thirst and hunger for can only be found in the spaces you have left.

How exactly does my being amused by these cards cut the sacred out of anyone's life? For that matter, what is it you're speaking of for which I'm thirsting and hungering?

God bless you. I hope you do better than Bono.

The singer? I'm afraid you've lost me again, I don't see the relevance in this context.

21 posted on 08/27/2009 1:25:33 PM PDT by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word. -- R A Heinlein)
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To: Constitutionalist Conservative
Except the atheists/secularists, of course, who come out smelling like roses. The whole point of the game is to mock religion in all of its flavors.

Well, the picture of the atheist/secularist is kind of funny...but I'll grant you that it's biased in favor of such a viewpoint. I would give the authors more kudos had they been willing to make fun of themselves to the same degree as others.

22 posted on 08/27/2009 1:29:32 PM PDT by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word. -- R A Heinlein)
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To: GL of Sector 2814
I don't understand the significance of Elijah in this context, but I'm not overly familiar with the Old Testament. I'm sorry, I thought from your tone and condescension that you might be somewhat educated. Seems incredible to me that someone would make a decision to mock the King of the Universe and His servants without actually knowing what he is talking about. For that matter, if you can't recognize the idol worship all around you, you probably don't know the "New" Testament all that well either. All men hunger for bread and thirst for water. The only bread that sustains the flesh is the Word of God, and only Living Water satisfies forever. These are Jesus. You still haven't found what you are looking for, but He has found you. Turn and find Him. Bless You.
23 posted on 08/27/2009 3:08:48 PM PDT by naturalized
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To: naturalized
I'm sorry, I thought from your tone and condescension that you might be somewhat educated.

Well, let's see. I'm well versed in mathematics, world affairs, politics, science, military history (just for starters)...but not being overly familiar with Old Testament mythology disqualifies me from being even "somewhat" educated?

Seems incredible to me that someone would make a decision to mock the King of the Universe and His servants without actually knowing what he is talking about.

You're certainly free to believe that Christ is the "King of the universe", but please note that not believing in someone's religion is not the same as mocking it.

For that matter, if you can't recognize the idol worship all around you, you probably don't know the "New" Testament all that well either.

You asserted that the authors were ignoring vast numbers of "idol worshipers". I pointed out that the religions which they covered included well over 90% of humanity, which you did not dispute. While I grant you I don't know the "New" (why the quotes in this case?) Testament all that well, why should I? I'm not a Christian. I'm also not a Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, or Confucianist...so I don't know the Qur'an, the Book of Mormon, the Vedas, or the Five Classics of Confucianism all that well. Should I?

Do you?

All men hunger for bread and thirst for water.

Fair enough. I'm with you so far on this one...

The only bread that sustains the flesh is the Word of God,

Sorry, simply not true objectively. I've eaten bread (white, wheat, etc.) many a time, and it's sustained me quite satisfactorily.

and only Living Water satisfies forever.

Even after proton decay has rendered the question moot?

These are Jesus.

Again, you have every right to believe that.

You still haven't found what you are looking for, but He has found you. Turn and find Him. Bless You.

You still haven't answered a bunch of my questions:
1) How does mockery "enslave" the mocker?
2) Just who are these multitude of "idol worshipers" who aren't covered by the 24 cards in question?
3) What does Elijah have to do with any of this?
4) What does Bono have to do with any of this?
5) How exactly does my being amused by these cards cut the sacred out of anyone's life?
6) What am I looking for that I haven't found? It can't be Christ, because I'm not a Christian and I'm not looking for him.

24 posted on 08/27/2009 6:07:15 PM PDT by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word. -- R A Heinlein)
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To: Alex Murphy

Thanks, Alex.

These are really good. Appreciate it.


25 posted on 08/27/2009 7:33:43 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: GL of Sector 2814

Well, let's see. I'm well versed in mathematics, world affairs, politics, science, military history (just for starters)...but not being overly familiar with Old Testament mythology disqualifies me from being even "somewhat" educated?

Uh, yes.

You're certainly free to believe that Christ is the "King of the universe", but please note that not believing in someone's religion is not the same as mocking it.

No, but calling the resurrection daffy is. And "Christ" is what He is, not His last name. Are you afraid of saying "Jesus?"

You asserted that the authors were ignoring vast numbers of "idol worshipers". I pointed out that the religions which they covered included well over 90% of humanity, which you did not dispute. While I grant you I don't know the "New" (why the quotes in this case?) Testament all that well, why should I? I'm not a Christian. I'm also not a Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, or Confucianist...so I don't know the Qur'an, the Book of Mormon, the Vedas, or the Five Classics of Confucianism all that well. Should I?

There is only one set of Scriptures that are true, and they all point to Jesus the Christ, whether before the Gospels or after. Again, I would think you would want to be informed before you mock the King of the Universe.

Sorry, simply not true objectively. I've eaten bread (white, wheat, etc.) many a time, and it's sustained me quite satisfactorily.

Those that know you better than me would probably argue that point. Ask the ones that aren't afraid of your need to always be right. One day your bread will grow stale and moldy, with the smell of death.

Even after proton decay has rendered the question moot?

Some might define that as the end of time, or, forever. But once you join the eternal you do not thirst, and Jesus is the only way to join that party. But to my eye, the day of the Lord looks more like the sun going nova (if we use that kind of language).

1) How does mockery "enslave" the mocker?

Do you not see the bars of your own prison? Don't you want real, meaningful relationships based on irrational, passionate love? Don't you want someone to really care about you, even if you were to lose all your wonderful reason and knowledge and science? You must be terrified of getting Alzheimers.

2) Just who are these multitude of "idol worshipers" who aren't covered by the 24 cards in question?

Look all around you. For God's sake, we use it as a compliment now, a goal to be aspired.

3) What does Elijah have to do with any of this?

Oh, please, are you that dull? Do you really think Jesus would have killed the prophets of Baal? Why then does he tell us to leave the weeds alone? Ripping them out harms the harvester. Really, did I have to explain that?

4) What does Bono have to do with any of this

Even he knows who the author of life is, but he still hasn't found what he's looking for.

5) How exactly does my being amused by these cards cut the sacred out of anyone's life?

By itself it doesn't. But if you were so inclined, I imagine you'd read Jefferson's Bible.

6) What am I looking for that I haven't found? It can't be Christ, because I'm not a Christian and I'm not looking for him.

And you profess to be well-versed in science? Even Heisenberg would tell you that you can't measure something you aren't looking at.

Mock away, scoffer, but should you ever look, you will wonder and be amazed. God will do something for you that you would not believe, even if I told you.

26 posted on 08/29/2009 7:31:41 PM PDT by naturalized
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To: Alex Murphy

bump


27 posted on 08/29/2009 8:33:00 PM PDT by WhirlwindAttack (Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm the rest of his life ;)
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To: naturalized
Well, let's see. I'm well versed in mathematics, world affairs, politics, science, military history (just for starters)...but not being overly familiar with Old Testament mythology disqualifies me from being even "somewhat" educated?

Uh, yes.

99% of Japanese people are non-Christian. Presumably, the vast majority of these are not overly familiar with Old Testament mythology. By your definition, some 99% of Japanese are by definition not even somewhat educated.

That's just silly.

No, but calling the resurrection daffy is. And "Christ" is what He is, not His last name. Are you afraid of saying "Jesus?"

Believing that Athena sprung fully grown from the head of Zeus is daffy, but my saying that doesn't mock Greek mythology. It simply recognizes that the story was written by the people of that time.

Google "Jesus Christ". It gets 148 million hits. It's simply a common way of referring to the man. And by the way...

Jesus.

Hm...I don't seem to be afraid. Do I get a cookie?

There is only one set of Scriptures that are true, and they all point to Jesus the Christ, whether before the Gospels or after. Again, I would think you would want to be informed before you mock the King of the Universe.

You're certainly free to believe that your set of Scriptures are true, just as believers of other Scriptures are. If I believed that Jesus the Christ was the king of the universe, I'd certainly bring a different attitude to this discussion. Since I don't...

Sorry, simply not true objectively. I've eaten bread (white, wheat, etc.) many a time, and it's sustained me quite satisfactorily.

Those that know you better than me would probably argue that point.

And your basis for knowing this is...what, exactly? Let me assure you that if I asked anyone who knew me well "Does white & wheat bread sustain me satisfactorily?" the answer would be "Um...sure. Why wouldn't it?"

Ask the ones that aren't afraid of your need to always be right.

Since you (apparently) know me so well, please let me know which of my friends are afraid of my need to always be right.

Just as an aside, what's wrong with wanting (but not anticipating) to always be right?

One day your bread will grow stale and moldy, with the smell of death.

Then I'll throw it out and buy some new bread. Problem solved!

Even after proton decay has rendered the question moot?

Some might define that as the end of time, or, forever.

Proton decay (assuming it even occurs, it's debatable at this point) will result in a lack of baryonic matter by 10 to the 100th years from now (or so). Not forever, but a heck of a long time! For a fun read on the subject, I recommend "The Five Ages of the Universe: Inside the Physics of Eternity" by Fred Adams and Greg Laughlin.

But once you join the eternal you do not thirst, and Jesus is the only way to join that party. But to my eye, the day of the Lord looks more like the sun going nova (if we use that kind of language).

Unless, of course, you're wrong and the Muslims are right. Or the Buddhists. Or the Hindus. Or the atheists. Or...

1) How does mockery "enslave" the mocker?

Do you not see the bars of your own prison?

Er...no, sorry.

Don't you want real, meaningful relationships based on irrational, passionate love?

How does enjoying the occasional bit of mockery prevent such a relationship from occurring?

Don't you want someone to really care about you, even if you were to lose all your wonderful reason and knowledge and science?

I already have people who really care about me in this way. They're called friends and family. None of whom are Christians, for what it's worth.

You must be terrified of getting Alzheimers.

It's a creepy disease, but I'm certainly not "terrified" of it. Why are you certain that I'm so scared of it?

2) Just who are these multitude of "idol worshipers" who aren't covered by the 24 cards in question?

Look all around you. For God's sake, we use it as a compliment now, a goal to be aspired.

Who. Exactly. Are. They. I pointed out that the cards covered well over 90% of people, and you didn't disagree.

3) What does Elijah have to do with any of this?

Oh, please, are you that dull?

Christian attitude noted :-)

Do you really think Jesus would have killed the prophets of Baal? Why then does he tell us to leave the weeds alone? Ripping them out harms the harvester. Really, did I have to explain that?

Yes. You do. What part of "I'm not a Christian and I'm not familiar with the Bible" didn't I make clear? I knew Elijah was a Biblical-sounding name, but that's it. I didn't go to Sunday School. I've only been in a church a half-dozen times in my life (I have to admit The Vatican was really cool). When you discuss Elijah's gardening techniques, you're speaking of something with which I'm simply not familiar.

4) What does Bono have to do with any of this

Even he knows who the author of life is, but he still hasn't found what he's looking for.

Well, if you say so. You evidently know the man better than I do. I confess I don't follow pop stars all that closely.

5) How exactly does my being amused by these cards cut the sacred out of anyone's life?

By itself it doesn't. But if you were so inclined, I imagine you'd read Jefferson's Bible.

And how would my reading Jefferson's Bible cut the sacred out of anyone's life? Mind you, if I were inclined to read the Bible I'd prefer reading the unexpurgated version. Reading Jefferson's Bible would be like reading The Iliad with all the parts about Gods taken out. The fantastic elements and mythology are the whole point of the Bible.

6) What am I looking for that I haven't found? It can't be Christ, because I'm not a Christian and I'm not looking for him.

And you profess to be well-versed in science? Even Heisenberg would tell you that you can't measure something you aren't looking at.

You're asserting that the Heisenberg uncertainty principle proves that I'm looking for Christ?

That's certainly...novel, to say the least.

Mock away, scoffer, but should you ever look, you will wonder and be amazed. God will do something for you that you would not believe, even if I told you.

Do you not mock and scoff every religion in the world except your own? We're in agreement when it comes to 99% of the world's religions. You simply disbelieve in one less than I do.

28 posted on 08/30/2009 11:02:20 AM PDT by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh --- Robert A. Heinlein)
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