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US Church leaders urge Catholics to engage in health care debate
Independent Catholic News ^ | September 15, 2009 | Maria del Mar Muñoz-Visoso

Posted on 09/16/2009 7:48:21 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

The US Bishops' Conference today issued the following article by Maria del Mar Muñoz-Visoso, Assistant Director of the Office of Media Relations, entitled: 'Make your voice heard in the health care debate'.

Does thinking about health care reform give you a headache? Are the rhetoric, the cross messages, and the overflow of information — and misinformation — tempting you give in to the pessimistic thought that the sick who are most in need of health care, the poor, the marginalized, the immigrant, don’t stand a chance, “as always,” in front of powerful financial and political interests? Do you question getting involved at all?

The task seems daunting, but this is not the moment to give up or disconnect. The debate has reached a critical moment when the Catholic voice needs to be heard clearly and strongly.

The US Catholic bishops have spoken with one voice on the principles that should guide the discussion. They have been advocating for decades for the reform of a fragmented health system, one that is currently expensive, filled with inefficiencies and leaves too many people out.

The introduction of several bills in Congress this session (there are several different versions circulating in the House and the Senate as this is being written) acknowledges this reality. This has provided the opportunity to present the Catholic teaching on this issue and, in light of the tensions and complexity of the debate, has made the clear outlining of certain basic moral principles more necessary than ever.

A Catholic in good conscience cannot blindly vow support for one proposal or another without first measuring it against the fundamental principles of subsidiarity, solidarity and the common good.

Following Catholic social teaching, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops:

- Supports universal health coverage which protects the life and dignity of all, from conception to natural death, especially those who are poor and vulnerable.

- Opposes any efforts to expand abortion funding, mandate abortion coverage, or endanger the conscience rights of health care providers and religious institutions.

- Supports effective measures to safeguard the health of all of society by expanding eligibility for public programs, such as Medicaid, to all low income families and vulnerable people, and by offering adequate subsidies for cost-sharing of insurance premiums and out of pocket expenses. Legal immigrants, and all pregnant women and children, regardless of immigration status, should be included.

The urgency of the matter has seen many bishops present these principles in order to educate the faithful and the public, encourage them to get involved, and also ensure they are aware of the dangers, subterfuges and subtleties hidden in the different proposals.

Locally each bishop has put emphasis in that which concerns him the most but, in the end, the message is always the same: it is urgent to reform the U.S. health system, but don’t do it at the expense of the poor, the children in their mother’s womb, or the consciences of doctors, nurses and other health workers. We can do better than this.

There are different ways to achieve access for all. We can debate and compromise on the proper role of government.

Let us find solutions where all the stakeholders can play a role and do it according to their religious convictions.

Let us stop the noise and the finger-pointing and turn to the issue at hand: the health of the nation. As one of our veteran Hispanic bishops, Bishop Ricardo Ramirez of Las Cruces, New Mexico, put it recently: “in our public discourse, let us not allow anger to suffocate wisdom, nor let slogans replace solutions.”

If there is a country where the means exist to remedy the health care crisis, it is this one. But, is there a will? Solidarity and the common good come at a price.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic
The US Bishops' Conference today issued the following article by Maria del Mar Muñoz-Visoso, Assistant Director of the Office of Media Relations, entitled: 'Make your voice heard in the health care debate'....

A Catholic in good conscience cannot blindly vow support for one proposal or another without first measuring it against the fundamental principles of subsidiarity, solidarity and the common good....

But you can "blindly vow support for one proposal or another" after you've measured it...

Locally each bishop has put emphasis in that which concerns him the most but, in the end, the message is always the same: it is urgent to reform the U.S. health system, but don’t do it at the expense of the poor, the children in their mother’s womb, or the consciences of doctors, nurses and other health workers. We can do better than this....

In the end, the message is always the same: the bishops really want to support Obamacare, if only that abortion thing wasn't in the way.

....If there is a country where the means exist to remedy the health care crisis, it is this one. But, is there a will? Solidarity and the common good come at a price.

The bishops' social teachings come at a price, payable in the form of higher taxes and the expansion of civil government. Are you prepared to pay that price?

1 posted on 09/16/2009 7:48:21 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy
In the end, the message is always the same: the bishops really want to support Obamacare, if only that abortion thing wasn't in the way.

They probably would put up with the abortions if it meant getting socialized medicine passed. Commies with collars.

2 posted on 09/16/2009 7:53:52 AM PDT by San Jacinto (/i)
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To: Alex Murphy

*** Supports universal health coverage which protects the life and dignity of all, from conception to natural death, especially those who are poor and vulnerable.***

The above statement is true. However, Alex, you are also right about having the government handle health care. We heard just recently that the government loses FIFTY PER CENT of all of its paper work.


3 posted on 09/16/2009 8:09:16 AM PDT by kitkat
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To: Alex Murphy; NYer; Salvation; narses; Mrs. Don-o
Alex, from the article:

The US Catholic bishops have spoken with one voice on the principles that should guide the discussion.

Uh, no, not exactly:

Unfortunately, I wish it were more, but not all bishops are in favor of socialism.

Back to the article, Following Catholic social teaching, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

Unfortunately, this statement does not follow Catholic Social Teaching. It follows socialism.

As I have repeatedly posted:

Just as it is gravely wrong to take from individuals what they can accomplish by their own initiative and industry and give it to the community, so also it is an injustice and at the same time a grave evil and disturbance of right order to assign to a greater and higher association what lesser and subordinate organizations can do

- Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno, 79

If there is a country where the means exist to remedy the health care crisis, it is this one. But, is there a will? Solidarity and the common good come at a price.

Has somebody at USCCB forgotten about subsidiarity? Obviously, the answer is "yes."

Alex, I hate seeing this kind of tripe come out of the USCCB, particularly when they so egregiously violate the teachings of the Church. They do not have the right to invent their own doctrine out of whole cloth. If they feel they have no alternative, so be it. They should form their own denomination and leave us Catholics alone.

4 posted on 09/16/2009 8:22:03 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Alex Murphy

I am a Catholic, and I engage in the health care debate often. Have lost friends over it. I just don’t engage in it the way this article seems to want me to. :)


5 posted on 09/16/2009 8:26:23 AM PDT by RaiderRose (Obama has cured my husband's political apathy.)
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To: Alex Murphy
So, in essence, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops supports a violation of the 8th commandment "Thou shalt not steal."

Folks who think universal health care should be provided should be setting up a fund and inviting others of like mind to donate. They can use that money to provide health care for the poor. After all, Jesus said YOU help the needy. He was never in favor of taking money from others by force in order to help the needy.

By the way, the Catholic Church has a lot of money. Yes, they do a lot of good with some of that money. But they have a lot of stuff they could sell and use the money to provide this health care they claim to be so concerned about.

So, Bishops. . .get busy!

6 posted on 09/16/2009 9:21:29 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: markomalley

LOL! I think we all need to send messages to the bishops that we disapprove of the healthcare issue at any cost!


7 posted on 09/16/2009 9:24:51 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: markomalley
Here are the FR threads I have so far about bishops oppsing the healthcare/Obamacare

Health Care Principles [Bishop Samuel Aquila, Fargo, ND]
Florida Bishop [Thomas Wenski] Weighs in on Health Care Reform
ObamaCare and Catholic social teaching [Bishop Neckless]
Some Catholic bishops question gov't health care
Boston’s Roman Catholic Cardinal Says He Confronted Obama about Abortion in Health Care Plan....

Iowa Bishop: Don’t Be Railroaded into the Current...Health Care Proposals
in a message issued by the Diocese of Sioux City (The Church on Universal Healthcare)
Nazi Health Care A Catholic Bishop Speaks Out Against "End of Life Care" (Germany, 1941)
Bishop Nickless: "No Health Care Reform is Better than the Wrong Health Care Reform"
Cardinal Rigali, Abp. Chaput Intensify Warnings Against Obamacare's Abortion Expansion

8 posted on 09/16/2009 9:30:18 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: MEGoody; Alex Murphy
So, in essence, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops supports a violation of the 8th commandment "Thou shalt not steal."

Amen !

The "works based people" ignore the 8th commandments and steal from others
so they like the Pharisees can gloat and feel that it is their tithe to their lord.

These are the same people who support breaking the laws of this YHvH created
nation. The question is who is their lord ?

is it YHvH ? Who condemns stealing ?

Or is it Satan ? Who rewards others who sin in Pride.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
9 posted on 09/16/2009 9:43:53 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Alex Murphy

I engaged in healthcare debate, it is called taking part in tea parties.


10 posted on 09/16/2009 11:46:37 AM PDT by Biggirl (Called To Be Patriots!:)=^..^==^..^==^..^==^..^=)
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To: markomalley; Alex Murphy; NYer; Salvation; narses; wagglebee; misterrob; trisham; metmom; don-o; ...
"There are different ways to achieve access for all."

This piece of confused USCCB bafflegab no doubt reflects confusion amongst the U.S. Bishops about Catholic Social Teaching, and especially about the hugely important distinction between "society" and "the state."

If we say that "society" must strive for the common good in relation to healtcare (or water quality, or cinema and broadcast entertainment, or neighborhood safety, or early childhood education, or anything else), we must emphasize that "society" consists of every form of human organization, beginning with the marital couple and the family, and extending through workplaces, businesses, nonprofits, labor organizations, trade associations, professional groups, parishes, schools, fraternal and civic associations, philanthopic and charitable groups, clubs, partnerships, city and county governments, etc. etc. etc. with special emphasis on that third etcetera.

All of these are not, collectively, "the state"; they are prior to and more important than "the state": they constitute "society." And "the state" cannot justly invade and absorb the functions of "society."

It is because "society" must strive for the common good in relation to healthcare, that spouses care for each other in sickness and in health; that parents care for dependent children; that adult children care for aged and dependent elders; that parishes hire parish nurses; that religious orders found and staff hospitals; that ospitals form healthcare consortia; that employers offer group insurance coverage; that students decide to enter the medical professions; that an inventor seeks a patent for a new therapeutic device, and then goes out to attract investors ---

I'm trying to suggest a crowded Bruegel canvas showing hundreds and thousands of people individually and jointly doing their thing, resulting in people in their "common associations" achieving the "common good."

This multiplex, layered society, each unit having its own proper gifts, opportunities, and obligations, is the context for all the Church's teachings on Social Justice.

Somebody should tell the USCCB.

I seem to have a vocation in Remedial Catechism.

11 posted on 09/16/2009 12:43:55 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you, but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I seem to have a vocation in Remedial Catechism.

*******************

LOL!

As for the rest of your post: well said, Mrs D.

12 posted on 09/16/2009 12:48:18 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: socialismisinsidious


Socialized Medicine aka Universal Health Care daily digest PING LIST

FReepmail me if you want to be added to or removed from this daily digest ping list (one ping per day of links to pertinent articles).




13 posted on 09/16/2009 1:05:43 PM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: Alex Murphy
Following Catholic social teaching, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops:

- Supports universal health coverage which protects the life and dignity of all,


Great. Wonder how many brain dead/feel good Catholics are going to read that and mindlessly jump on the universal care band wagon. Probably the same ones who voted for the Economic Idiot Known as obama. sigh.

btw All: I'm a devout, practicing Catholic so keep the whining pings to yourself.
14 posted on 09/16/2009 1:11:32 PM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: Alex Murphy
The bishops' social teachings come at a price, payable in the form of higher taxes and the expansion of civil government. Are you prepared to pay that price?

He that's okay as long as there is "SOCIAL JUSTICE".

Besides only the "rich" will have to pay for it, so what if the govt is in control of your medical records. Who cares if the elderly don't get full coverage in the last two years of their life.

15 posted on 09/16/2009 1:50:12 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: markomalley; Alex Murphy; NYer; Salvation; narses; Mrs. Don-o
Alex, I hate seeing this kind of tripe come out of the USCCB, particularly when they so egregiously violate the teachings of the Church.

So when are American RC's going to hold them accountable, or is that someone else's job?

16 posted on 09/16/2009 1:53:06 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Job well done!


17 posted on 09/16/2009 2:04:40 PM PDT by Biggirl (Called To Be Patriots!:)=^..^==^..^==^..^==^..^=)
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To: wmfights
So when are American RC's going to hold them accountable, or is that someone else's job?

They'll take the wafer and keep their mouths shut. Holding the bishops accountable is someone else's job. Namely, the Protestants.

18 posted on 09/16/2009 2:23:17 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (...We never faced anything like this...we only fought humans.)
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To: Alex Murphy

They just described the health care system we now have...But they decided we need to include with a guarantee that illegal aliens are included...


19 posted on 09/16/2009 2:56:15 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: wmfights; Alex Murphy; NYer; wagglebee; Salvation; Mrs. Don-o; narses
So when are American RC's going to hold them accountable, or is that someone else's job?

As it stands, the Church was never established to be a democracy or republic, so it's not like we can fire them.

What we can do (and hopefully, will do, as far as Catholics who are faithful to the teachings of the Church):

Now am I naive enough to believe that the majority will do any or all of the above?

But as far as getting the deacons and elders together and voting out the current preacher and replacing him with another one...don't work that way.

20 posted on 09/16/2009 3:14:32 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Alex Murphy
Holding the bishops accountable is someone else's job. Namely, the Protestants.

Then we are all in trouble, there is no way they will listen to a bunch of Evangelicals.

21 posted on 09/16/2009 3:43:25 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: markomalley; wmfights; Alex Murphy; wagglebee; Salvation; Mrs. Don-o; narses
As it stands, the Church was never established to be a democracy or republic, so it's not like we can fire them.

Excellent observation, Mark. The only thing I can add to your comment is to point our fellow freepers to a thread from July 2007.

Catholics in some places face situations in which it seems the bishop turns a blind eye to heterodoxy and dissent—or even appears to give them his blessing. Faced with such dysfunctional diocesan environments, they naturally look to Rome for relief and redress, but often are disappointed to find that help is slow in coming, if it ever comes at all.

By "do something" people usually mean that they want the pope to discipline the bishop, to apply pressure on him to adhere more closely to Church teaching, or even to remove him. But most of us—while from time to time sharing such wishes or even voicing them—don’t know exactly what can be done about a bad bishop. So I’ll address a couple of common misconceptions about the bishop’s role and his relationship to the universal church, and I’ll explain how the Church sees these things, both in its teaching and tradition.

Here is the thread: Why Doesn't the Pope Do Something about "Bad" Bishops? . It is well worth the read.

22 posted on 09/16/2009 3:46:05 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: markomalley; Alex Murphy; NYer; wagglebee; Salvation; Mrs. Don-o; narses
But as far as getting the deacons and elders together and voting out the current preacher and replacing him with another one...don't work that way.

I guess that's why RC's are not great allies to have. It's too bad, we share a lot of agreement on social issues, especially life, but your hierarchy dictates that a centralized authority is the best way to solve these problems and we look to individual empowerment. If you have to just do what they say to be good RC's there's not much hope for the future.

23 posted on 09/16/2009 3:49:19 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights; markomalley; Alex Murphy; NYer; Salvation; Mrs. Don-o; narses
I guess that's why RC's are not great allies to have. It's too bad, we share a lot of agreement on social issues, especially life, but your hierarchy dictates that a centralized authority is the best way to solve these problems and we look to individual empowerment. If you have to just do what they say to be good RC's there's not much hope for the future.

Why should it matter what an apostate priest says or does if his congregation will be your ally?

24 posted on 09/16/2009 4:05:04 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
The US Bishops' Conference today issued the following article by Maria del Mar Muñoz-Visoso, Assistant Director of the Office of Media Relations, entitled: 'Make your voice heard in the health care debate'.

Doesn't look like a apostate priest.

It really is an organizational issue. The big centralized bureaucratic solution always gets supported and the members are expected to fall in line.

25 posted on 09/16/2009 4:11:53 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights

I’m pretty sure that the Church hierarchy would be completely behind the health care bill IF it was pro-life. The fact that it is pro-death and will NEVER be pro-life makes the Church’s position a moot point. Also, “make your voice heard” can mean OPPOSITION.


26 posted on 09/16/2009 4:15:43 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Also, “make your voice heard” can mean OPPOSITION.

Do you really think that's the case? If so why not come out and say so.

The fact that it is pro-death and will NEVER be pro-life makes the Church’s position a moot point.

Just like disciplining RC's that support abortion.

27 posted on 09/16/2009 4:19:54 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights
Do you really think that's the case? If so why not come out and say so.

From the article:

Following Catholic social teaching, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops:

- Supports universal health coverage which protects the life and dignity of all, from conception to natural death, especially those who are poor and vulnerable.

- Opposes any efforts to expand abortion funding, mandate abortion coverage, or endanger the conscience rights of health care providers and religious institutions.

28 posted on 09/16/2009 4:28:24 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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