Posted on 10/01/2009 6:29:50 AM PDT by NYer
It never ceases to amaze me how many parents wait such a long time, even years! Last year, I attended the Baptism of two sisters, aged 10 and 12, whose parents had decided to leave the decision up to the kids. They brought the girls to classes all throughout the year. They made their First Penance and First Communion and then they were gone. The parents felt they had fulfilled their obligation. The girls are too young to drive themselves to Church on Sunday. It is simply heartbreaking, especially after seeing the joy on their faces when they celebrated the sacraments.
When was the thief on the cross baptized?
not being catholic, i won’t attack your beliefs. but as i was raised to believe, the decision should be that of the individual upon reaching an age of accountability- the age when they are old enough to know what baptism means, the reasons, the symbolism, etc. and that baptism is a confirmation of your personal choice to accept Christ, not a requirement to gain access to heaven.
Isn’t Baptism a Sacrament that can be performed by anybody? I recall that discussion from the good Sisters and all the enthusiasm only 4th grade boys possess.
This is an issue in our Spanish-speaking congregation. One reason is that many of the families did not have regular access to a priest and parish before settling in our community. We've had baptisms of whole families of children, from infants to teenagers!
Our deacon has discussed the problem in his homilies, encouraging everyone to have Baptisms held promptly. He does instruction after Mass on the second Sunday each month, and does baptisms after Mass on the last Sunday each month.
The thief on the cross, sometimes referred to as “Dismas”, was possibly Jewish, therefore he held to the Old Covenant and was circumscised at 8 days old. However, his true belief in Jesus came to light when he asked to be remembered when Jesus entered his kingdom. This faith alone was enough at that time to ensure his salvation.
Yes. A Baptism performed in the correct way, with clean water and the words, "In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," is valid no matter who does it.
It’s not the parents’ decision. The “child” decides when he wants to be baptized following his salvation. Baptism is a profession the church, community, etc., of one’s acceptance of Christ as personal Savior. Since a baby cannot accept Christ, he shouldn’t be baptized. It doesn’t get someone closer to Heaven.
In the Bible, a baby is NEVER baptized. Baptism occurred only after a person’s salvation. When in doubt, people should read the Bible and give it the same respect for accuracy that they give the Constitution. We don’t like it when people “make up stuff” that’s not Constitutional. Why is it OK to make up stuff that’s not Biblical?
I believe that when a baby or mentally retarded person dies he goes to Heaven since he did not have a capacity to make a decision for or against salvation. (Others believe they don’t go to Heaven.)
On the cross ... baptism of desire.
Where is that in the Bible?
Well, I would not be judgmental on their decision. Many factors could be involved in their decision that you are unaware of.
My first two were christened before 3 months, but my last child was just about 14 months old when I had her christened. There were many things that put off the christening, and there were also many that judged me for it.
Makes you kind of wonder why god fearing people would judge you on the decisions you make or have to make due to problems beyond your control. I thought that judgement was left for only 1, but hey that’s my belief!
She should be Baptized before doing a photo shot with Roman Polanski.
Clean water? So if the ocean is full of bacteria it doesn’t take?
That is ONLY in case of emergency.
Latin Rite
In the Latin Rite Catholic Church, the ordinary minister of baptism is a bishop, priest or deacon (canon 861 §1 of the Code of Canon Law), but in normal circumstances, only the Parish Priest of the person to be baptized, or someone authorized by the Parish Priest may do so licitly (canon 530). “If the ordinary minister is absent or impeded, a catechist or some other person deputed to this office by the local Ordinary, may lawfully confer baptism; indeed, in a case of necessity, any person who has the requisite intention may do so (canon 861 §2).
By “a case of necessity” is principally meant imminent danger of death because of either illness or an external threat. “The requisite intention” is, at the minimum level, the intention “to do what the Church does” through the rite of baptism.
Please read Col. 2:11-12, wherein Paul uses circumcision as a parallel to baptism. Since circumcision was only performed on infants, and rarely on adults, it stands to reason that he would not have used that parallel if he intended to exclude infants from baptism.
Also John 3:5. Jesus states that no one can enter his kingdom unless he is born again of the water and the Holy Spirit.
Every instance of Baptism that is described in the New Covenant period follows salvation. This is demonstrated in various ways (the convert heard the gospel and believed, the convert repented, they confessed their belief, etc), but there is not one instance of a baptism occuring before conversion, and not one instance where a child is mentioned as being baptized.
My opinion is that, unless your child is old enough to understand what the gospel message is and confess their belief, they are not old enough to be baptized.
Sometimes, there’s only ONE class a month for the parents that is a PREREQUISITE to Baptism in many dioceses/parishes.
They want to make sure the parents understand what they are doing.
NOT DEFENDING - Having moved from Texas to New York, I’m amazed at what New York Catholics put up with after feeling that the Diocese of Dallas was a little overbearing 6 years ago. Now, Dallas has a Bishop from the Northeast... I’m all for the liturgical practices, but the “jump thru this hoop” is nuts!
When they can make a decision about Christ themselves.
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