Posted on 10/01/2009 6:29:50 AM PDT by NYer
I find people who put off having their child baptized are mostly guilty of ignorance. If they understood that by having their child receive the sacrament of Baptism as soon as possible, that child is spiritually reborn; giving this child's soul a new life of santifying grace by which he/she become children of God and heirs of heaven. This is so awesome - why would anyone wait?
Paul used circumcision as a “parallel”. Definition: having the same nature or tendency, analogous.
Just because he used the parallel does not mean he was excluding females. He was merely making a comparison between Old Covenant and New.
Whether baptized at childhood or adulthood is irrelevant. One has the ability to reject their faith once they become conscious of such issues.
How can having absolute faith in God saving babies at an infant baptism be seen as “works” but making a person “realize the message of Christ” and take that step to “surrender” themselves not be seen as a work? You make no sense to me. Whole households were baptized in the bible. Are you saying it’s not possible that babies or small children under the age of reason didn’t exist in these households?
The thief on the cross encountered Jesus face to face during His crucifixion. To give some acknowledgment that such a conversion is unusual wouldn't be unreasonable.
Then, of course, there are the rest of us.
He *said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 6:15-17
A person who rejects the Church's teaching isn't likely to follow it in this matter. But a Catholic is obligated to baptise the baby. It is a matter of spiritual care-taking.
It is the spiritual parallel to feeding, bathing, clothing, and loving the child. In fact, it is the expression of it.
Parents who don't see this are a bit more concerned about their own beliefs that either their child's or the Church's, and, frankly, they are either ignorant (for which charitable allowances can be made) or frighteningly self-centered.
Your argument is specious. The 12 year old child into devil worship, Goth and blasphemy would most like resist all attempts at baptism in any case.
And if that 12 year old is into those things, the parents carry the burden that they have not fruitfully provided a proper spiritual upbringing. However, prayful supplication could change that child’s behavior and open his heart.
St. Monica prayed unceasingly for her non-Christian husband and son - St. Augustine. Have you heard of him? Following his baptism he became a fiercely devoted Father of the Church.
In our situation, our second child was born, and dh had just started a job in another state. Every other weekend, he came home.
Seven months later, another job out of state. Training. Selling house, moving across the country. My father suffered a massive heart attack during the move. The next year was mostly about him, husband flying & hardly home. Again, packed up our apt., and moved into new home in PBC, FL.
This was 8-9 years ago, too, when it was being discovered that many Priests were sexually abusing minors in the Catholic Church. I was disgusted with what was happening even in my own Diocese.
That said, when I approached a Priest in PBC, I’d asked him about Baptizing my nearly 4 yo, and I was told I’d needed to attend classes. EVEN though, I’d done that with my firstborn, I was already a Godparent times 2, and I’d attended Catholic School & received every Sacrament available to me. The Priest was unsympathetic that dh was flying for an airline, in a Reserve unit in WPB, and working a third job as an instructor at My Gym to help pay our bills and continue to keep our older child attending Christian School.
The following year, we moved out of FL, and into the DFW area. The Priest at our nearest Catholic Church wouldn’t told us right away that he wouldn’t Baptize our then 6 yo. until we were Parishoners for at least 6 months. We needed to take classes, too. And to save our child from a group Baptism with tens of babies, my inquiry about having a Baptism performed privately was falling on deaf ears. Oh...plus both of our child’s Godparents were over 2k miles away. That too was an issue with the Priest.
SO, ffw to today. My child is now 11 and where am I to turn? I’ve been so disheartened with the RC Church over the past decade. My children have both attended only Christian Schools. Priests don’t appreciate that I’ve fallen away from what once was my anchor to the Lord. I’m tired of the hypocrisy.
Anyone here a Priest in the Dallas area, willing to work with us?
My Daughter baptized at Four Months, Nephew at Nine Months, and myself at Forty-Four. At least where I reside and live in New York the rules are not that rigid. I assume it differs from parish to parish.
Let me just ask you this then and we can end the debate:
1) Are you going to Heaven?
2) Why?
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Thank you for the ray of light in this otherwise cloudy thread. “Do this ceremony, apply that sacrament...Jesus? Who’s He?” You, my FRiend, have been saved by grace, through faith, and that not of yourself, it is a gift of God, not of works lest any of us boast. Eph. 2.
The truth of the Gospel, not of Catholicism. And it is interesting that no matter how much they protest around here, the Catholics on the street actually believe in salvation by works.
Observably clean, as opposed to muddy or mixed with Crystal Light. In the Bad Old Days, pretty much all water was dangerously polluted.
My great grandfather’s brother, Christian, had their firstborn son, Karl, baptized the same day of his birth, September 5, 1856. This according to the baptismal records of First Immanuel Lutheran, Chicago (which is still there, situated in the Chicago Circle Campus). This was two years after the family’s immigration from Germany.
Wrong. Faith AND works. Please don’t confuse your misconceptions about Catholics with facts.
1.) I certainly hope so!
2.) Salvation does not come directly from faith alone or works alone. It is directly from God’s GRACE alone. Not from man. We can only receive it and not reject it.
I baptize my babies as soon as I can so they can begin right away to receive God’s grace. As they grow, they go through the other Sacraments as their faith builds. The more Grace they receive, the stronger their faith AND works. It’s God given, not man made. It seems as if you are saying that unless man has faith(man made) God cannot give him graces. Seems a little backwards to me!
If we reject God’s graces then we risk losing salvation. Any opportunity for my child to have God’s graces poured onto him, I will surely let that happen.
Doctrine or no, I do not believe that someone else’s action, or lack thereof, can condemn your immortal soul.
BTTT!
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