Carmelite nun traces path from LDS faith

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | Sept. 18, 2009 | Kristen Moulton

[greyfoxx39]

Nice attempt at deflection, however not responsive to my post.

If a post on FR is so "alarming" then 60,000 missionaries swarming the world yearly should also be alarming. Especially when the message carried by the 60,000 is that ONLY mormonism is the path to salvation.

[Cronos]

We can be united politically with gentle, civilised folks like Mormons, Protestants, Evangelicals, Apostolic Church (Orthodox, Catholic, Oriental, Assyrian) and even Hindus. We can't be like that with Mooselimbs

however, that doesn't mean that we can't disagree with each others beliefs -- respectfully.

While Mormons are nice, conservative people, I disagree with their beliefs and I'm sure they disagree with my own. however, we both believe in a respect for each other and the right to each other to believe what they wish as long as they don't intrude on each other

They don't want to launch suicide bummers etc

[Colofornian]

I find it odd that people would spend so much time trying to convert someone else’s beliefs instead of building on the IMPORTANT beliefs that they share.

My, my. (I didn't know you were so against the entire Christian missionary enterprise. You don't think missionaries are out there only for humanitarian reasons, do you?)

Also, if you weren't aware, one of the major motifs in the New Testament of the Bible is conversion. You're not asking us to be unfaithful to our religious beliefs, are you?

Now let's say I had the "average" life of a Mormon missionary. I'd rise by 7 and be back home between 9:45 and 10 p.m. 6 days a week. (My "off day" is still missionary oriented as it's called a "Preparation Day.")

So if Mormon missionaries spend almost all of their awake life for two years "trying to convert someone else's beliefs" -- do you consider that a-OK by your standards? (Whereas if I spend a few pct pts of my current life doing something similar, I'm divisive? Please explain your seeming inequitable application of standards here)

Secondly even Lds (ex) missionaries will tell you that yes, while they spent a tremendous amount of time "trying to convert someone else's beliefs" -- it wasn't/isn't mostly "instead of" exposing others to their beliefs. 'Twas both. Yes, Lds missionaries go door to door calling Christians "apostates." Yes, Lds missionaries go door to door trying to convert others to their beliefs. But they also share their important beliefs. It's all one bag -- nothing "instead of" about it. You've carved up one ball of wax.

But nice try on your insinuation. I mean, while the average Lds missionary's life is all scheduled out for them for two years, and you can generally figure out what % of their time is spent on what, you don't know what proactive edifying or common-ground sharing with people of other faiths that occurs in other circumstances of my life...church, family, faith-based groups, social settings, etc. Do you?

(And if you do, tell me what crystal ball I should order -- or if it's your own invention, let me market it...we could make a bundle together under the umbrella of free enterprise)

Anyway, please tell me why you assume you know somebody's life in and out?

Also, as Greyfoxx pointed out, you seemingly neglect that I'm just one person...whereas the stated goal of 60,000 worldwide Lds missionaries is to proselytize millions to convert to Mormon beliefs. So my question to you is: Have you ever made these kind of similar statements to a Mormon missionary, an ex-Mormon missionary, or those who support their cause?

(If not? Why not? Why would you be concerned about single me and not necessarily the literal 1 million Lds missionaries who have gone out? Doesn't that seem lopsided?)

Bottom line: you don't seem to be acting any different than the MSM. Your question is no different than what the MSM commonly does: it'll cover the one protestor in the Capital and ignore the million people marching on behalf of life or lower taxes. If you have raised this concern about Lds missionaries on other threads or contexts, just point me to which one or set me straight & I'll apologize for jumping to my own conclusion. If you haven't, then you need to explain your inconsistency: If you're bothered by people trying to convert others, then why are you seemingly not more bothered by 60,000 Lds missionaries spending 70-hour 6-days-a-week-for-2 years "trying to convert someone else's beliefs" than you are me?

I have had many Mormon friends, Southern Baptist friends and agnostic friends. One of my best buddies from the Navy (3 decades ago) is a Catholic Priest. The one thing I notice is that we share a lot more principles and beliefs than we differ on.

That's great. Make friends with people of all faiths. And, that's also great, please share what common ground you have.

Us folks, who support Judeo-Christian principles, Constitutionally protected freedoms, and Western Culture should stand together and fight those who do not. Divisive posts like yours do nothing to further freedom and a strong America.

I'll respond to this challenge in the next post.

[Colofornian]

Us folks, who support Judeo-Christian principles, Constitutionally protected freedoms, and Western Culture should stand together and fight those who do not. Divisive posts like yours do nothing to further freedom and a strong America.

Wait a minute. That's an unfair tactic. Don't you know it's Monday morning? Don't you know it's against Monday a.m. rules to make others laugh like you've done? :)

Please allow me to explain: The first word of your last sentence was "divisive". Yet the first word of your second-to-last sentence was "Us" Now who's tilling "us" vs. "them" ground again?

"But," you might say: "There IS 'us' vs. 'them.' There are dividing lines."

And I would say, "Yes, I agree with you." But western culture and its freedoms aren't the only ones to exist. Jesus drew dividing lines with the Pharisees. He told them at one point that these legal religionists would traverse land and see to make converts "twice the son of hell."

Yeah, I know, I know. You'd probably lecture Jesus on your issues, too, had you lived back in the day of the Pharisee: The one thing I notice, Jesus, is that we Jews share a lot more principles and beliefs than we differ on. Us folks, who support Judeo...principles [and other] protected freedoms, and Middle-Eastern Culture should stand together and fight those who do not -- like those imposing Romans. Divisive comments to the Pharisees like yours do nothing to further freedom and a strong Israel.

(Well, have at it. I've heard Jesus is still alive; so I'm sure you've got His ear)

Beyond that, we Christians take our cultural cue from that certain "Lord" who goes by that Name. Who are we to follow when it comes to setting cultural priorities? Jesus and the apostle Paul? or ExpatGator?

Here's Jesus:

"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:4-5)

So does Jesus say, "fear the non-Westerners or in that day, "fear the non-Middle Easterners?" (No)
Does Jesus say, "fear those who don't embrace constitutionally protected freedoms?" (No)
Does Jesus say, "fear those who don't share our Judeo-Christian principles?" (Again, No)

Instead, does He say to exercise fear of the One who has authority to cast somebody into hell? (Yes)

So, indeed, our "fear" is on behalf of those who are placing their eternal spiritual lives at risk.

As for "standing together" I could probably guess that the folks who the apostle Paul warned the church @ Ephesus about had the bulk in common with the sheep there. Both groups were "religious." So, did Paul play the "allies"-game-don't-divide-us-you're playing? (No)

As Paul was leaving the church of Ephesus, he warned them with this high-priority alert:

"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)

Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)

Tell me something, ExpatGator: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years, do you think it's rather important? So what? We're just to conclude, "Oh, the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament -- what does he know about cultural priorities?"

I'll take Paul's and Jesus' already-revealed priorities to your guesswork based upon bashing those willing to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints (Jude 3)

[svcw]

we both believe in a respect for each other and the right to each other to believe what they wish as long as they don't intrude on each other

Where and when did ldsers demonstrate that?

[Campion]

The author of this cool blog is a parish priest in Ogden, UT, who is a convert from the LDS church.

There, she met someone who gave her courage: Sister Catherine Romney Cheney, another convert from the LDS faith who was at the time the extern sister for the cloistered nuns. Catherine was the sister of LDS apostle Marion G. Romney

That must have made for some interesting Thanksgiving dinners!

[ejonesie22]

Oprah based Christianity.

All paths are right, even the non Christian ones.

It's being nice that counts now days.

[Godzilla]

Your right, this guy has a great sense of humor!

[greyfoxx39]

we both believe in a respect for each other and the right to each other to believe what they wish as long as they don't intrude on each other
Where and when did ldsers demonstrate that?

Exactly! Mormons whine continually because they really believe that they and they alone are privileged to proselytize whenever and whever they wish, but when faced with counter-proselytizing they cry "bigots" "liars", and my fav, "persecution".

In all my years as a mormon I was told "we are a speshul people because WE have a living prophet and the "restored" gospel". That feeling of being "speshul" clings to the members and is evident whenever the conversation turns to religion. Mormons feel justified in their "spreading the gospel" not only because they feel it's the "true" one, but because they cling to persecution of the past.

It's kinda like Obama's attitude that HIS people are "speshul" because of past transgressions against them, (see the analogy?) and therefore he is justified in pushing those NOT "his people" to the back of the bus where they belong.

Anything that can be labeled "anti-mormon" is condemned...and called "hate" speech...(another analogy).

BTW, ExpatGator, my post #21 was meant as a reply to you.

[Tennessee Nana]

Her conversion, Mary Joseph says, probably began at age 14, when she had the distinct feeling she should give her life to God.
___________________________________________________

Well. praise God she did that and didnt give her life to Joey Smith and mormonism...

[Graybeard58]

A bump and a thank you for #24, very well stated.

[Colofornian]

Well. praise God she did that and didnt give her life to Joey Smith and mormonism...

It just donned on me -- with the way you phrased this -- that Lds followers aren't really all that much different from the acculation of dozens of wives Joseph Smith had: All have given their lives to Smith.

In this way, Smith still operates as a "spiritual polygamist" -- accumulating members of his "household."

The message of Isaiah, and Paul to both the Corinthians & Ephesians, as well as John the Revelator -- is that we as the church only have one spiritual husband, Jesus Christ.

I know Mormons don't want to hear this, having heard repeatedly that earthly marriage properly sealed is forever. But the church will only have a single husband for eternity, Jesus Christ.

I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to ONE HUSBAND, TO CHRIST, so that I might present you as a pure virgin TO HIM (The Apostle Paul, 2 Cor. 11:2)

[Colofornian]

Oprah based Christianity. All paths are right, even the non Christian ones.

I'd say LOL if it wasn't so sad.

It's being nice that counts now days.

(And we thought denominations only had names like Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodist, Wesleyan, Lutheran, AoG, Episcopal, 4-square, Missionary & Alliance, and Evangelical Free...You've just identified the at-large "Nicer-Than-Jesus" denomination)

[ExpatGator]

Witty.

[ExpatGator]

Our definition of rant differs.

I addressed the divisionist spirit of the original post. Period.

[ExpatGator]

I disagree with their beliefs as well, but do not think it is a net benefit to continually attack their beliefs on this forum.

[Godzilla]

Our definition of rant differs.

No doubt. Is your's to throw everything up against the wall and see what sticks?

I addressed the divisionist spirit of the original post. Period.

And yet you continue to fail to reduce the ambiguity by putting forth a resonable definition.

[ExpatGator]

“So if Mormon missionaries spend almost all of their awake life for two years “trying to convert someone else’s beliefs” — do you consider that a-OK by your standards?” Yes, as long as they are not doing it on a forum like this, thereby dividing folks who are pretty much on the same side. I support the right of any religion to prosthelytize or do missions, and in fact, I fought for their right to do so.

I would just as quickly point out if a Mormon was posting divisive articles and would find it just as detrimental to the, ummmm, mission of defeating those on the left who aim to enslave us.

[ExpatGator]

“to your guesswork based upon bashing those willing to contend for the faith”

Seriously? Bashing? Where?

[colorcountry]

The way I look at it, is when I first came to FR, there were several Mormons actually proselyting here. It seemed they thought by touting the strong conservative bent of Mormonism to unsuspecting Freepers, they would be able to get converts to Mormonism among our numbers. I think they saw some success.

I and others started to counter the Mormons. I figured as long as they are free to try and convert Freepers to Mormonism, I am free to tell freepers everything I learned about Mormonism that is untrue. I was born a sixth generation Mormon who left it in my late 20’s but didn’t become Christian until I was 47. Those lost years when I wandered in agnosticism were a direct result of the denigration of the Bible and Christianity by Mormon teachings....it took me a long, long time to get over that distrust.

This is a great forum to have discussions about religions. Those who are uncomfortable with open discussions, often have something to hide. While Christianity does have some regrettable history, you don’t find us denying it, or trying to prohibit people discussing it.

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”