Posted on 10/21/2009 7:54:33 AM PDT by marshmallow
"Old England isn't finished yet," joked The Goons in the 1950s, "It's finished . . . [tick, tick] . . . now!"
And if you'd wanted a good benchmark for deciding when England would be finished, the demise of the Church of England as an international force would fit the bill. Well, it looks like that might be happening. The Bishop of Rome, as the CofE always used to refer to the Holy Father, has announced a special provision for Anglicans converting to Roman Catholicism, preserving parts of the wonderful Anglican liturgy. As The Anchoress says, this is big for Catholicism on two counts. First, it may well provide a bridge for the entire, vibrant African arm of the Anglican Communion to move to Rome and, second, the use of the Anglican liturgy may make people realize that things have gone wrong with the Roman one.
It is, however, a much bigger deal for the Church of England. As I think I have written before, it may mean that the current Archbishop of Canterbury, has, in his desire to please everyone, presided over a schism that could prove fatal to his Church.
The Telegraph's blog editor, Damian Thompson, has much more on what the story means for +Rowan Cantuar personally. There are signs, for instance, that His Grace had his arm twisted by the (Catholic) Archbishop of Westminster in their making a joint announcement.
(Excerpt) Read more at corner.nationalreview.com ...
A most interesting coincidence that St. Therese's relics are making their way through Britain at this momentous hour.
Ping
I think many Anglicans started to question their church and religion when it started to embrace homosexuality and gay rights and gay marriage.
I think many Anglicans started to question their church and religion when it started to embrace homosexuality and gay rights and gay marriage.
Are you paying attention, People of America?
St. Therese always did want to be a missionary!
I have been attending a weekly class at an Episcopalian “church” for the last several months (I am a Catholic). All Saints Church in Pasadena, CA has all the look and feel of Democrat Party HQ or even BHO’s HQ. There are bulletin boards all over the place with notices of upcoming left wing political meetings and activities. There is nothing remotely spiritual about this “church.” It has, sadly, become the center and HQ of most left wing political activism in the Pasadena area. I can see why this “church” is dying if it is indeed typical of other Episcopalian churches across the country.
“...And if you’d wanted a good benchmark for deciding when England would be finished, the demise of the Church of England as an international force would fit the bill....”
Excellent quote! Culture comes, ultimately, from religion — kill that and a People are gone. What will it turn into? Probably 100 different things. then the Country is gone too.
Actually, I suspect this move by Rome, if acted upon by disaffected Anglicans, will turn out rather badly for the Roman Catholic Church.
Regardless of the legitimacy of the orthodox complaints (and they are legitimate), it's important to recognize the dynamics that define today's orthodox Anglicans, which will show up in equal force among the Romanized Anglicans.
To begin with, we orthodox folks have never really understood, much less fought, the battle that is actually being waged. The revisionists have very effectively employed Alinsky's tactics of infiltration. They go to all the meetings, control the operational bureaucracy, set the agenda, and the control the terms of debate. And they're patient.
The orthodox side typically fights by: 1) avoiding all participation in the bureaucracy; 2) discovering (too late) this or that particular outrage; 3) shouting a lot; and 4) eventually losing the vote.
Finally, having lost everywhere on everything, the orthodox side just drops everything and leaves. This has happened numerous times over the past couple of centuries.
The people who will head to Rome, are the same ones I've just described. They're a prickly, impatient, and hot-tempered group.
There is no reason to expect that this dynamic would change, just because these orthodox Anglicans have gone to Rome. Benedict, or the next Pope, or the one after that, is bound to disappoint these folks on some matter of doctrine or theology. What will they do? Same thing, no doubt.
And I right now predict that the words they use in their shouting phase will include "New Reformation."
It began long before that. When The Episcopal Church abandoned the 1928 Book of Common Prayer and began the ordination of women into the priesthood, many began to leave. The insane rantings of John Spong and other heretics sppeded up the process. By the time TEC embraced homosexualism, the exodus from the church was well underway.
As a former Episcopalian who is in RCIA for conversion to the Catholic faith, I’m overjoyed by Rome’s decision to welcome Anglicans with open arms. I pray that an Anglican Rite parish will be established near where I live.
- JP
Black liberation theology...
Tear down their God and replace it .........
We'll leave aside the wishful thinking as expressed in the "bound to disappoint" phrase and ignore the vague and unspecified point of "doctrine or theology" which is going to upset the Anglican converts and accept your statement as fact.
So what?
The Catholic Church has been fighting tooth and nail for the past four decades with its own cradle Catholics who have been doing exactly that! A few Anglicans can't be any worse than our own home grown heretics, schismatics and de facto agnostics who've been rebelling against everything from Humanae Vitae, priestly celibacy, homosexual clergy, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the truth of Scripture and all manner of other issues.
Heck, they might actually be an improvement!!
No FRiend, nothing the Anglicans can bring to the Church can trump the mess already made "in house", so to speak. Read the news today. The liberals hate this move.
Why?
Because they know that it will make the Catholic Church more orthodox and the Anglican more liberal.
It's a non issue.
I'm just remarking on the easily-observed characteristics of the Anglicans (Americans, mostly) who are most likely to be attracted by the Pope's proposal.
We'll leave aside the wishful thinking as expressed in the "bound to disappoint" phrase
It's not "wishful thinking," it's just the fact. There are a variety of ways in which Catholic Church differs from Anglican belief and practice, and those differences will give rise to friction, some of it probably serious. To give an obvious example, the essential autonomy of American Anglican parishes is quite counter to Roman practice. Consider the differences in how American Anglican and Catholic priests are selected to serve in parishes: Catholic priests are assigned; American Anglican priests are called by the parish.
I'm sure you can see how this would result in difficulties, especially if the Catholic Church takes a less orthodox tack after Benedict dies, and begins to assign its priests accordingly.
As you note, the Catholic Church has plenty of problems of its own, not least of which is the struggle between Church and our sexualized secular culture. A large influx of married priests can only increase the stress.
BTTT!
The Pope is being magnanimous in allowing rebels to return home to the Church of Rome. Remember, the Church of England broke away for regional/provincial/king wanted to divorce reasons. The Anglican Church, even in it’s better days, and they weren’t really all that much better, was always in a state of spiritual disrepair.
As for the very small number of Anglicans who will return home, I wish them well. They should make confession first for the spiritual troubles they aided and abetted.
Liturgical freedom and such is all very nice, but that's not where the conflicts are likely to arise -- except where doctrinal differences force a change. (Transubstantiation, anyone?)
The real rub will be in the mechanics. Anglican parishes -- Americans in particular -- tend to have a great deal of freedom to select their own clergy. I don't believe this is at all common in the Catholic Church.
So when it comes time for a new priest ... what do you suppose is going to happen?
The voting you refer to would be in low-church anglican parishes. I don’t believe that’s the same in the TAC. We would not support congregationalism.
Are TAC priests assigned by bishops? Or are they essentially selected by the parish?
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