Posted on 10/24/2009 5:30:59 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
That's right, we're just a bunch of dumb "Catlicks". I bet Trautman thinks we're like Obama's view of Republicans, we just "take orders" and don't think for ourselves. Why does everything have to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, particularly the liturgy?
Amazing that fifty years ago Catholics were a biblically literate and latin literate group. They regularly used toughie words. There was room in the church for every one from old granmas with fifth grade edcations and Post doc professors
If Bishop Trautman believes that, he needs to go back and read the V-2 documents again. (If he ever read them in the first place.)
> “Did Jesus ever speak to the people of his day in words beyond their comprehension? Did Jesus ever use terms or expressions beyond his hearer’s understanding?”
Is this guy for real?? He needs to read the Gospels! Almost EVERYTHING Jesus said was beyond the comprehension of most of his listeners -- including, frequently, the Apostles. Those who usually understood (Pharisees, etc.) were also incensed about what He said -- as it pertained to all the things they were doing wrong.
Ah, the illiterate Catholic. I did have to look up “consubstantial.” It took about 5 seconds.
Its a choice you always have to make when translating from a latin language into english.
Do you choose the latin-based cognate which sounds weird or high-falutin’ in ordinary English or do you choose the anglo-saxon equivalent? I would usually lean to the pithier anglo-saxon word for normal secular translating, but in theology you want to be careful that you haven’t actually changed the meaning in some subtle fashion.
In the case of theological translating, its probably not as big a deal, people’s ears are already used to or soon become used to the latinate language.
Also, since we now have so many Spanish speakers in our midst, some of these words would make more sense to them since their language is Latin-based.
And in the case of some of these words, there may not be a convenient anglosaxon equivalent. In some ways this is specialty language.
Please retire and shut up, Bishop Trautperson.
How dare you be offensive to Trautperdaughter.
Bishop Trautperson’s reaction is entirely predictable.
At one time, Catholics DID use words like “consubstantial,” “inviolate,” etc. I.e., when Catholics knew the Catholic Faith.
Trautperson should be ashamed that Catholics’ vocabulary has degenerated precisely during the years he has been a priest and bishop.
Given that part of the clergy’s job, Catholic or not, is to teach, “the people don’t understand the words” really doesn’t fly as an excuse.
For heaven sakes, how did the pre-Vatican II parishioners ever get by having to deal with words they might not understand, like when the whole Mass was in Latin. Get a life, Bishop, or instruct your flock as to the meaning of the words they are all too stupid to understand. Geez....
Bishop Trautman, do us all a favor and RETIRE quietly to the middle of nowhere.
“The (Second Vatican Council’s) Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy stipulated vernacular language, not sacred language,” he added. “Did Jesus ever speak to the people of his day in words beyond their comprehension? Did Jesus ever use terms or expressions beyond his hearer’s understanding?”
Well, yes, when you consider He used parables that people DID NOT understand!
You wrote:
“Amazing that fifty years ago Catholics were a biblically literate and latin literate group. They regularly used toughie words.”
and then came the New Mass, and families disappeared from church and withdrew their kids from Catholic schools and put them in public schools. Now we’re illiterate. No surprise there.
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
“Not understandable by the average Catholic.”
Oh, just include the nice pop up pictures and us will catch on right quick.
Trautman is still using his position in the bishops’ conference to block reform of the English translation of the liturgy, which was approved by the Vatican quite a long time ago.
Sure, Trautman. The creed just happens to say “Credo.” That means “I believe.” And it’s absolutely basic. One can say what “we believe” as a declaration of fact, but one can only say “I believe” as a confession of faith. You can’t make a confession of faith for someone else. And he knows it.
Was it also a coincidence that “Et cum spirito tuo” was translated “And also with you,” instead of “And with thy spirit”? I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Trautman and his language thugs completely eliminated the word “spirit” or “soul” from the English liturgy. Because he doesn’t believe in souls? That wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
It will be a great day for the Church in America when this trouble making thug retires.
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