Good Catholics should not wear aprons

The Catholic Herald ^ | 30 October 2009 | Fr Ashley Beck

[Smelly_Fed]

Which of these require you to believe in a supreme being?

Again, immaterial. Freemasons want moral men - we don't believe you can be a moral men and not believe in God. But to your point, there are indeed country clubs that historically have required its members to be Christians.

What is the "Celestial Lodge Above"?

Allegory for heaven obviously. There is no path in freemasonry for getting there. Your faith is your guide and freemasonry is not faith.

[Smelly_Fed]

What in what I have posted as excerpts do you deny as representative of the Masonic belief system?

The whole of it. Nothing in what you have posted as the "decalogue of masonry" is mentioned in any of the degrees that are taken to become a master mason.

[D-fendr]

Thanks for your reply. I want to make it clear that I'm not anti-mason. I'm interested in discussing whether it does in whole or part constitute a religion or religious teaching.

we don't believe you can be a moral men and not believe in God.

Is there in difference, in the view of Freemasonry, between the Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Hindu God? Is one favored or "more correct/true" than another? IOW, does it teach that each view is equal or that the differences are not relevant?

There is no path in freemasonry for getting there.

Is it true that Freemasonry teaches that it is your "purity of life and conduct" that makes you fit for heaven?

[narses]

So the posted excerpt that starts:

Masonry has its decalogue, which is a law to its Initiates. These are its Ten Commandments:

That is NOT in conformity to Masonic teaching? Pike was teaching something that you as a Mason deny as truth?

[D-fendr]

Here's what wikipedia (sorry) says on the distribution:

A copy of Morals and Dogma was given to every new member of the Southern Jurisdiction until 1974, when it was deemed "too advanced to be helpful to the new Scottish Rite member."[citation needed] It was initially replaced by Clausen's Commentaries on Morals and Dogma, written by Henry C. Clausen, 33°, Sovereign Grand Commander, and later by A Bridge To Light, by Rex Hutchens, 33°, G.'.C.', which is the book a new initiate into the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction receives today. The book was never used in the Northern Jurisdiction.

Fred, have you ever heard of Clausen's Commentaries or "A Bridge to Light"?

[Smelly_Fed]

That is NOT in conformity to Masonic teaching? Pike was teaching something that you as a Mason deny as truth?

Some of what Pike mentions there is born out by scripture and most of it could be considered moral teaching but if you're asking if it's taught in the degrees of masonry, the answer is an emphatic no.

Again, you simply don't understand the structure of masonry and that becomes more and more clear with each confused post.

[Smelly_Fed]

Is there in difference, in the view of Freemasonry, between the Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Hindu God? Is one favored or "more correct/true" than another? IOW, does it teach that each view is equal or that the differences are not relevant?

Freemasonry insists that you believe in the one God - we are monotheistic. I've personally sat beside a Jew and a Muslim in my lodge. The point, as I understand it, is that men who believe in one God are more moral men because they believe in a higher authority. Obviously there are differences in our religions, we don't discuss them in lodge.

Is it true that Freemasonry teaches that it is your "purity of life and conduct" that makes you fit for heaven?

The degrees of masonry do speak of heaven and purity of conduct but the former is not conditional - rather you are encouraged to let your faith be your guide.

[Smelly_Fed]

Fred, have you ever heard of Clausen's Commentaries or "A Bridge to Light"?

Heard of it yes, read it no. Again it's a Scottish Rite thing and I'm not a member of the Scottish Rite - nor do I have any plans to become one. That's not to denigrate Scottish Rite members, it's just not my gig.

But to an earlier point, your post proves what I was saying. Morals and Dogma was certainly not distributed to EVERY freemason as was suggested by narses. Merely Scottish Rite members of the Southern Jurisdiction.

[narses]

Odd. So is Masonry “a beautiful system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols.” ?

[meadsjn]

Good Catholics would quit being Catholics, and become free thinking individuals, who speak for themselves, read for themselves, and pray for themselves.

The same is true for good Baptists, good Mormons, good Quakers, good Methodists, etc., etc., etc.

Thomas Jefferson said it best, "I have sworn upon the alter of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

As for the Catholic church, there has never been any government so horrible, with which they would not share power to maintain control over the people, to keep them poor, ignorant, and enslaved.

[Smelly_Fed]

Odd. So is Masonry “a beautiful system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols.”?

It's often described as that but that quote is not in the the degree work.

A lot of people attribute "All men are created equal" to being a reference from scripture but that's Abraham Lincoln as far as I know.

[narses]

You know I never used the phrase “the degree work”, you keep qualifying your semi-denials with that phrase. What’s up with that?

[narses]

meadsjn wrote:

As for the Catholic church, there has never been any government so horrible, with which they would not share power to maintain control over the people, to keep them poor, ignorant, and enslaved.

Really? Is this a Masonic teaching?

[narses]

How about this description of "degree work"?

KNEELING AT THE ALTAR

The central piece of furniture in the Lodge is the Altar. The Altar is symbolic of many things. As a temple symbolizes the presence of Deity, the altar symbolizes the point of contact. Its location in the center of the Lodge also symbolizes the place which God has in Masonry, and which he should have in every Mason’s life. It is also a symbol of worship and faith. The candidate approaches the Altar in search of light and assumes his obligations there. In the presence of God and his Brethren, he offers himself to the service of the Supreme Architect of the Universe and to mankind in general. The Altar is the point on which life in our Masonic Lodges is focused and it should be accorded the highest respect.

[D-fendr]

I really appreciate your replies and I think the point that there is a large degree of variation within Freemasonry should always be kept in mind.

In regards to purity, in your experience again, is each Masonic Degree seen as or meant to be a step toward purity or perfection? If not, are they seen as an advance or movement toward something?

[meadsjn]

Really? Is this a Masonic teaching?

I wouldn't know what the Masons teach. Masonic stuff is supposed to be secret, and I'm not a Mason.

The history of the Catholic church is just that, history.

There have been many good people, who have belonged to a wide variety of churches, who have done good works down through the ages. To those individuals go the credit, not to any bureaucracy to which they happened to be attached.

Just today, you can see the Republican High Priests jumping in to take credit for a success that they so recently opposed, until the people overwhelming overruled them.

Church organizations and political organizations are not so different. A handful of ruling self-anointed elitists continue to drain the resources of their people, while operating to their detriment.

[narses]

Ah it is your own bigotry then, not something you learned?

[TradicalRC]

The article does not go into some of the history of antipathy between the two groups. The French Revolution was certainly a product of the “Free Thinking” masons and there is that bizarre anecdote of the Masonic coffinjacking at Pius the IX’s funeral where they tossed his casket into the Tiber.

[Redleg Duke]

So, it is okay for your side to attack, eh?

Sometime again, nanny.

[meadsjn]

You need to look up “bigotry”.