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To: Titanites; vladimir998

And the Catholic position on the individual and his/her relationship to Christ would be what? in regards to the Church?

Also, is there a verse that states that the foundation of truth is the Church?


16 posted on 11/10/2009 12:14:08 PM PST by ColoCdn (Neco eos omnes, Deus suos agnoset)
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To: ColoCdn
For the Church as "pillar and ground of the truth" we go to I Tim 3:14-15.

In dealing with us feelthy papists it's important to read the fine print. We would say that one has to be a member of the Body of Christ to be "saved". Vivified by His Spirit, we are members of His Body. If you're not a member of the body, you're just not with the range of that spiritual vivification.

Then we say the ORDINARY way to become a member of the body is through Baptism. The mere saying of "Ordinary" implies that there are extraordinary ways to become a member of the Body.

In the other matter of the 7 churches, I'd just say that Paul is clear that there is one Body, and that Body is the Church. We ourselves use "church" in different ways, and sometimes try (unsuccessfully?) to clarify the different meanings with the use of upper-case letters. I don't think anything can be clearly shown from John's revelation of seven churches. I'm guessing seven dioceses, myself, before that term came into use in church-talk.

25 posted on 11/10/2009 1:00:37 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: ColoCdn

You wrote:

“And the Catholic position on the individual and his/her relationship to Christ would be what?”

I think that’s a large subject, but I would summarize it this way: All men should commit themselves to faith in and obedience to Christ for He is our Lord, Savior and the Son of God. He had the words of eternal life by which men could live forever in communion with His Father in heaven. He makes our salvation possible through His grace which He won for us on the Cross through His selfless sacrifice. He gives us that grace freely for our faith in Him and for cooperating with the works He begins in us.

“in regards to the Church?”

The Church is the Body of Christ. The Church is the Bride of Christ. Christ died on the cross not just to forgive our sins but to empower the Church with grace to carry that forgiveness to the ends of the earth (John 20:19-23). A great medieval visual for that is here: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/rwb/www/teaching/engl209/pics/wound-birth.jpg
Christ in the illuminated ms. is both the sacrifice on the cross and the high priest in front of the cross as well, of course. The church is represented as a holy young person (no matter how old the Church is, grace keeps the Church young) wearling a crown of authority and holding the chalice representing the sacraments.

“Also, is there a verse that states that the foundation of truth is the Church?”

1 Timothy 3:15


26 posted on 11/10/2009 1:08:17 PM PST by vladimir998 (Some public school grads actually believe BIGETOUS is a word)
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To: ColoCdn
"Also, is there a verse that states that the foundation of truth is the Church?"

Did you mean "Let God be true, and every man a liar?"

36 posted on 11/10/2009 1:37:11 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: ColoCdn; Titanites; vladimir998
Also, is there a verse that states that the foundation of truth is the Church?

Christ stated that the Church, not Scripture should be the final authority: "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the Church: but if he neglect to hear the Church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17 ) Christ did not state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction. He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity. In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, not Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15) Since the Church alone is mentioned as the pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture. For if individuals could correctly interpret Scripture, then all interpretations would be exactly the same as there can only be one Spiritual Truth for the plural of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture.

97 posted on 11/11/2009 9:05:38 AM PST by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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