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To: meandog

Seems if the Vatican would go back to the teaching of Scripture it would solve many issues. Scripture, in fact, condemned those who forbade people to marry and nowhere taught longtime celibacy as something to be practiced by its ministers. That said, since the Vatican includes their own traditions in determining its practice, it seems to sully the issue altogether that they would soften their position in order to grab a few priests.


2 posted on 11/16/2009 1:15:57 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger
Blogger, you seem to be unaware of the fact that there are 22 Churches which comprise the Catholic Church: Melkite, Maronite, Latin, Chaldean, etc. Only 1 of the 22 --- the Latin Church --- has voluntarily celibate clergy; the other 21 branches of the Catholic Church have always ordained married men as well as single ones.

Paul recommended his converts not to marry, but to remain single just as he was... voluntarily.

Subsequent early breakway churches (like the Albigensians) "disallowed" or "forbade" marriage, but this was clearly and forcefully repudiated as heresy.

The Catholic Church teaches that if a man and a woman are are both willing, and free to wed each other (one man and one woman, of legal age, not already married to somebody else, not previously vowed to celibacy, of normal mental competence, not drunk or crazy, not acting under force or coercion, etc.) nobody can forbid them to do so.

Nobody in the Catholic Church forbids marriage, or even claims to have the authority to do so. Those who want to be celibate (as our Lord was, and as Paul was) can take such a vow of their own free will, for instance when being ordained a priest in the Latin Church. Nobody ever forces someone to become a priest or to take a vow.

Of course, a man can't a vow of celibacy and then marry. Vowing something and then taking it back is breaking a promise to God.

Do you see what I'm saying? Every bit of it is voluntary. There's no "forbidding" here.

3 posted on 11/16/2009 2:07:55 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: Blogger
St. Paul makes it clear that marriage is good, but that celibacy is better.

1 Cor:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. 9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

The celibate priesthood is shown in glory in Revelation:

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

I'm a Catholic, but I think that the Orthodox strike a better balance in terms of priestly celibacy. It's favored, but not required. Celibacy is a special gift to which few are called. Celibates should be in monasteries and in the upper echelons of Church leadership. They shouldn't be in parishes ministering to married couples and their children. Celibates generally speaking simply are not equipped for that, by nature and by life experience. Maybe that was less true in former times than it is now, but from my experience the celibate clergy nowadays attracts homosexuals and other physchologically troubled individuals, while healthy, intelligent and sensitive men have all sorts of other career options open to them.

I hate to say it, but I've come to the point where I just assume every Catholic priest I meet is gay until proven otherwise. I'd never let my kids be alone with a Catholic priest - not that I'm accusing anybody of anything, it's just that my vocation as a parent requires that I take that precaution to keep my children safe.

I really believe that we need to jettison the celibacy rule. It just doesn't work anymore.

4 posted on 11/16/2009 2:51:25 PM PST by Erskine Childers
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To: Blogger

You ought to read Scripture and not the abridged heavily edited version.


7 posted on 11/16/2009 6:14:50 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Blogger

You wrote:

” Scripture, in fact, condemned those who forbade people to marry and nowhere taught longtime celibacy as something to be practiced by its ministers.”

The Catholic Church does not forbid anyone to marry. Men FREELY choose to take a vow of celibacy. It’s their FREE choice to do so.


15 posted on 11/16/2009 7:41:44 PM PST by vladimir998 (Some public school grads actually believe BIGETOUS is a word)
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