10 Reasons Why Modernist Christianity Will Die

Standing on My Head ^ | 11/24/09 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

[achilles2000]

The “Universal Moral Code” post looks like someone spamming for a site that sells posters featuring - of course - the witty sayings of some “Dr.” or other.

[IronKros]

Christianity certainly doesn't say this and the conquest wars recorded in Joshua were one-time deals, unlike the open-ended murder called for in the Koran.

Granted, modern day Christians are not ones to invade foreign countries on religious wars. However, if their religious leaders told them it was God's will. Wouldn't the believers be obligated to follow in the same military history of Moses and Joshua?

Jainism?
Jainism is far from new. It is one of the world's oldest religions even predating Hinduism. Scholars placed some of their earliest leaders in the 9th Century BC.

Were I in the market for a new religion, I'd go with Pastafarianism.

Pastafarians... hah! Cthulhu will devour them along with everyone else!
Praise he who slumbers in the briny deep!

[Enosh]

"Wouldn't the believers be obligated to follow in the same military history of Moses and Joshua?"

In a sense, we are. Jews and Christians alike are willing to die for their beliefs, if need be. But such true martyrdom would, (and did), take place under persecution, not warfare.

In the case of the Crusades, they should be seen in light of the aggressive invasions prior.

"Jainism is far from new."

Zoroastrianism is another fascinating ancient religion. It's parallels with others is remarkable.

[GonzoII]

Bump!

[IronKros]

Ok, back on topic. :)

A person who "knows" there is a God as opposed to "believing" there is a God, will do whatever they think their God wants.
This includes all of the "Do Nots" in the UMC.

That is what I meant by Religion can pervert the UMC.
Not every atrocity in Abrahamic Religions was committed for self preservation.

[maxwellsmart_agent]

True faith in Jesus Christ will never die. Everything else Jesus said is coming true. Remember these words - “Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The humanists are not true Christians even today. A prime example are the politicians in Washington who claim the moniker of Catholic and then repeatedly vote for and speak for abortion. Their faith retired to Florida years ago. If the Religion loses them, what does it matter? Christianity will live in the hearts of genuine people until the end. It is true that there are fewer young people in church, but there are some. These are the true Christians, those with the guts to follow the faith, much like the Christians of the earlier Chutch. There is no question in my mind that there will some Christians on the last day. They may be few, but they will be the ones with the true wisdom. Heaven may not be crowded, but that is okay with me.

[Enosh]

'A person who "knows" there is a God as opposed to "believing" there is a God, will do whatever they think their God wants.'

Human error aside, a person who knows God also knows His will, not think they know it.

"That is what I meant by Religion can pervert the UMC."

And that's what I would call human error.

"Not every atrocity in Abrahamic Religions was committed for self preservation."

Here's where I have to wonder what "in Abrahamic Religions" means. Did God order atrocities, or did they occur due to some other influence?

[wagglebee]

If you believe this, then you do not have faith in God.

Huh? It's talking about modernist Christianity (which is basically another name for secular humanism) dying out, not Christianity as a whole.

[fwdude]

I vote for the “cease to be Christian” route. The modernist liberals will still have their little club to bolster their practical atheism, with a nominal “christian” name attached - just to make them feel good.

[IronKros]

Human error aside, a person who knows God also knows His will, not think they know it.

And if his will is to not suffer a witch to live, then they have God's blessing to burn her at the stake? Since they KNOW there is a GOD, and the KNOW his will, they will have no qualms about burning a woman alive.

Here's where I have to wonder what "in Abrahamic Religions" means. Did God order atrocities, or did they occur due to some other influence?

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html


My point being, we can keep the humanism, ditch the religion and have a better moral society.

[Campion]

My point being, we can keep the humanism, ditch the religion and have a better moral society.

That's nice, but it won't work in practice, unless your definition of "religion" is a very narrow one.

"Morality" is fundamentally meaningless unless you believe that human beings have rights that no human being can take away. That proposition, in turn, requires an agency higher than any human being or human agency to grant those rights.

(After all, you have to have an answer for "why do people have the right to x, y, and z" that's better than, "they just do".)

That higher agency is God. Freedom, in the long run, is incompatible with an atheistic society, for the simple reason that men will always set something up in place of God ... and the most tempting idol to set up is the state. If "all men" are not "endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights," because there is no creator, then those rights will be understood to be granted by the sovereign.

And what the king grants, the king can also take away. The 100 million lives sacrificed to atheistic communism in the 20th century testify to that.

[sitetest]

Excellent post.

[IronKros]

You absolutely do not need a God to give Morals any meaning. Such an accusation is horrible.

Here is a video which can explain it nicely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn4DT5sHNWs

[x]

There's been talk about this for at least 30 years. Try this article: The Death of Protestant America: A Political Theory of the Protestant Mainline. If a religion doesn't have strong beliefs and values and if it's members don't have children and raise them to believe and act according to their beliefs it will decline.

But mainstream or liberal or "modernist" religion isn't going to die out. However strong and numerous conservative or traditionalist churches become, there are always going to be backsliders -- people born into the religion who like some things but don't accept all the dogmas -- and those people will gravitate to other, less rigorous denominations.

[tiki]

I can sure answer that one for you, The gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Obviously Jesus meant it because those waiting for centuries for the Catholic Church to go away might as well wish for Jesus to go away.

[Zionist Conspirator]

He’s one to talk.

[Enosh]

Thank you, Campion. That was very well put.

[Campion]

You absolutely do not need a God to give Morals any meaning.

You're right, you don't. You can give morals any meaning without God, any meaning whatsoever. What you have said is true.

[annalex]

Does the writer still believe [the supernaturalist story]?

He is an enthusiastically Catholic priest with an amazing story of conversion. What makes you think he doesn't?

[dr_lew]

Does the writer still believe [the supernaturalist story]? He is an enthusiastically Catholic priest with an amazing story of conversion. What makes you think he doesn't?

He calls it a story.

... You kept saying it seems red to you, it seems like it seems red to you, you believe it is red, you believe that you believe it is red, and so forth. Not once did you say that it is red. - Raymond Smullyan, An Epistemological Nightmare

I read that in Douglas Hofstadter's, The Mind's Eye, and it has always crystalized for me the point that professions of belief are confessions of doubt. True belief is transparent. When you look at a pen on the desk, you don't think, "The light entering my eyes indicates to me that there is a pen on the desk", you think, "there's my pen". People recognize this and look with wonder and envy on the true belief that children have in the fantastic.