'Hardball' host gives 'insulting lecture' during interview with Bishop Tobin

cna ^ | November 24, 2009

[NYer]

Chris Matthews / Bishop Thomas Tobin

Washington D.C., Nov 24, 2009 / 03:06 pm (CNA).- On Monday Bishop Thomas Tobin tangled with television pundit Chris Matthews on MSNBC’s “Hardball” about the relation between religion and politics as well as the legal status of abortion. Matthews’ comments, which charged that the bishop has overstepped his authority, were criticized as a “rant” and an “extended lecture.”

Bishop Tobin, of the Diocese of Providence has been critical of Rhode Island U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy’s attacks on the Church for opposing abortion. Rep. Kennedy recently revealed that the bishop had asked him to refrain from receiving Holy Communion in 2007 because of his public contradiction of Catholic teaching.

Chris Matthews began the Monday evening “Hardball” segment with a clip of remarks by Rep. Kennedy’s uncle President John F. Kennedy, the first Catholic U.S. president. In his political campaign President Kennedy had said that a politician should not accept “instruction on public policy” from the Pope or any other ecclesiastical source.

In response, Bishop Tobin emphasized that all religious believers, including Catholic politicians, should put their faith before their career.

“Nothing can become more important than your relationship with God,” he told Matthews, who is Catholic.

Bishop Tobin endorsed a return to U.S. law before the pro-abortion Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade. Matthews pressed him on this point, asking what laws he would write if he were a member of Congress.

“I am not a member of Congress, but if I were, I would never be in a position of supporting any abortion legislation that encourages abortion,” the bishop replied.

“What law would you pass?” Matthews pressed. “You’re coming down on Congressman Kennedy and other public officials. …Would you outlaw abortion?”

“That’s the direction our nation ought to move,” the prelate responded.

Asked to tell Catholics how they should vote as members of Congress, he said Catholics should vote for laws that “preserve and protect human life.”

Matthews asked Bishop Tobin to be specific, asking whether women who procure abortions should be thrown in jail.

“I have no idea what the penalty would be,” the bishop replied.

Matthews professed agreement with the bishop’s moral views, but then claimed Bishop Tobin had “transgressed” into the area of lawmaking. He characterized the bishop’s reluctance to name specific penalties for a woman who procures abortion as an expression of “hesitancy” from the clergy.

“Words like ‘murder’ and ‘killing’ are used in the case of abortion but they do not seem to apply in terms of writing the law,” Matthews commented. “And I would urge you to consider the possibility of error here, because in getting into telling public officials how to set public policy, you’re stepping beyond moral teaching, and you’re basically assuming a moral authority which I don’t think is yours.

“As you admitted tonight four or five times, you don’t know how to write law, and writing law is very tricky in our secular society,” Matthews’ comments concluded.

“I will reflect on that if you reflect on the teachings of the Church,” Bishop Tobin responded.

Bill Donohue of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights characterized Matthews as having “spun out of control.”

“Matthews proceeded with an extended and quite insulting lecture,” Donohue charged in a Tuesday press release. “He had absolutely no interest in a discussion on the question of the morality and legality of abortion—all he wanted to do was to make the bishop sit there and listen to his rant. Indeed, his tirade was simply over-the-top.”

Donohue claimed that no non-Catholic would treat a bishop in such a way.

“But too many liberal Catholics, especially Irish Catholics, think they are exempt from the same standards of civility that apply to others.”

Pro-life advocate Jill Stanek wrote on her blog that she thought the Matthews interview should have focused on the question “Are preborns human or not?”

“If they are, then we need laws to protect them, just as we do all other innocent human life. If we're not sure - if the answer is above one's pay grade - then we should err on the side of life,” she wrote.

The question of criminal penalties for women who seek abortions is a common talking point among supporters of permissive abortion laws. The issue was considered in an August, 2007 symposium titled “One Untrue Thing” on the conservative web site National Review Online.

In that symposium, Villanova University law professor Joseph Dellapenna said “none of the anti-abortion laws overturned by Roe v. Wade… treated the woman as a criminal.”

Rather, he explained, the laws treated the woman as a victim in part because of the dangers of abortion and in part because of the need for her testimony to convict the abortionist.

In the same symposium Clarke D. Forsythe of Americans United for Life pointed out that before Roe the abortionist, not the prosecutor, tried to argue that an abortion-seeking woman should be treated as an accomplice. This was done “for the obvious purpose of undermining the state’s criminal case against the abortionist,” he wrote.

According to an announcement from pundit Bill O’Reilly, Bishop Tobin will appear on Fox News’ O’Reilly Factor tonight. The show airs at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time and reruns at 11:00 p.m.

[NoRedTape]

btw............last time I looked, Chrissy Matthews had the lowest cable "news" ratings out of the whole group.

Wonder why? lol.

[NYer]

FWIW, Bill O’Reilly has invited Bishop Tobin on his program tonight, at 8pm. Let’s see if he does a better job of this.

[NYer]

I still can't get over the grin on his face. It was so smug and pompus and I might add a little demonic.

I knew Fr. Mitch Pacwa was supposed to be on that program last night but was not able to watch it. Thank you for posting a follow up. How did Fr. Mitch do in rebutting the other 'priest'?

[tiki]

And who is the Father of Truth? You got it, God. I’d think twice before I fought God.

Catholics and other Christians like this think that they know the mind of God and He thinks like they do. They make God in the image of themselves.

[tiki]

I should have said: They attempt to make God in the image of themselves.

[jimfree]

He beats up girls too - Michelle Malkin in the fall of 2004.

[NoRedTape]

"FWIW, Bill O’Reilly has invited Bishop Tobin on his program tonight, at 8pm. Let’s see if he does a better job of this."

Yes. Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. Have been all day. O'Reilly is Catholic, too, so we'll see how it goes. I'm so very glad Bishop Tobin is getting the word out there........let's hope the other less visible Bishops all hear it and learn from Bishop, where need be.

[NYer]

I'm so very glad Bishop Tobin is getting the word out there........let's hope the other less visible Bishops all hear it and learn from Bishop, where need be.

Ditto! It takes a spine to stand up to these bullying aggressors. Some of the older bishops are not prepared for this attack, nor for the upcoming battles. One need only look at Germany in the 30s to see where these actions are all leading. It's important to remember them in your prayers. They need to draw strength from them.

[bjorn14]

Chrissy was afaraid that he was next. Reminds me of a convo I heard awhile back:

Pro-abort Catholic: But Fr. I am a good catholic.

Fr.: Good catholics don’t pick and choose.

[stfassisi]

“Words like ‘murder’ and ‘killing’ are used in the case of abortion but they do not seem to apply in terms of writing the law,” Matthews commented. “And I would urge you to consider the possibility of error here, because in getting into telling public officials how to set public policy, you’re stepping beyond moral teaching, and you’re basically assuming a moral authority which I don’t think is yours.

Matthews has many demons in him to make this type of statement.I'm certain of this and not even joking

[magisterium]

Well, it wasn't "bad," but he didn't hit back nearly hard enough. All the bishop had to say, and repeat when needed is that it is not the place of the state or the media to dictate what constitutes sin or an excommunicating offense in the Catholic Church, nor is the Church handcuffed by the mere "fame" of an offender into ignoring its own law. Furthermore, the Church, in light of several Scriptural passages to support the position, considers unworthy reception of the Eucharist to be not only a sin, but a particularly grave sacrilege, depriving those who do so, and remaining unrepentant, of eternal life. The Church has a pastoral duty to its flock to warn them against such sacrilege, and, both in an attempt to protect the communicant from spiritual danger, and to protect, as far as possible, the Body of Christ Himself from sacrilege, it will insist on its 2000-year-old understanding concerning this duty. Finally, there exists the universal understanding that membership in the Catholic Church is voluntary, and, like any other secular society that has rules and expectations for its membership, the Church is in every position to insist on hers.

Obviously, there's plenty more he might say, but this would cover the basics. He might have also pointed out that it was Kennedy who brought this latest round of laundry airing to the public forum, and that Bishop Tobin, with pastoral solicitude, was advising Kennedy privately to absent himself from Communion while in a state of objective, publicly notorious sin and canonical excommunication.

In my opinion, had he taken the offensive immediately and continuously (in a charitable tone of voice, but otherwise quite firm about things), he could have shoved a wrench into the spokes of Matthews' bluster, and perhaps given the other bishops out there a good, spine-enhancing example.

I don't really mean to come-across as "harsh" concerning the bishop's performance. There probably aren't five others in this whole country who would have had the courage to enter this lion's den as he did. But it's time that the "Yes, but you see..." approach gets...um...augmented by the "spirit" behind the sentiments Jesus Himself employed in Matthew 23! At least sometimes. We'll never win back Christendom as long as we're always backpedaling. I sure wish my own archbishop up here in Boston had something forming his spine other than warm jello. His attitude is emblematic of why and how we've let a formerly "Christian" West turn utterly "post-Christian" in just a few generations.

May God be merciful to us, and send us legions of St. Athanasius clones...soon. If we're not already totally beyond saving, may all of us so petition Him with every breath!

[mware]

Fr.MItch did well considering the circumstances. It was one of those two on one interviews. I only got the tail end of the interview but long enough to see that the interviewer was setting up the questions for the other "priest"

I like it when Fr Mitch defended the Holy Father. He told the other priest that he (JPII) certainly did not know the personal background of all those who receive communion from him. He also would not have been aware if they had gone to confession prior to receiving.

Then Fr Mitch mentioned abortion both the interviewerand the other priest said, "no one likes abortions" That is when you could see steam coming out of Fr Mitches ears.

As for me I wanted to reach through my television set and ripe the grinning priest out of my set.

[Brad from Tennessee]

[. . .President Kennedy had said that a politician should not accept “instruction on public policy” from the Pope or any other ecclesiastical source.]

That doesn’t relieve the Pope or a bishop of the duty to renounce politicians who enable mass murder.

[SuziQ]

Chris Matthews is such a maroon!

[RnMomof7]

I like this Bishop !

He is acting to bring restoration.

Hopefully other Bishops will follow .

Chris Matthew’s is scared to death, he is a huge public proponent of a woman’s “right to choose”.
He is arguing his case as much as Kennedy’s

[ArrogantBustard]

: They attempt to make God in the image of themselves.

Perhaps even better: They fashion for themselves a "god" of their own making, after their own image and likeness. Then they worship it. When the ancients did this, they would make a little fanciful statue that represented their "god" ... a calf, perhaps, or some sort of hybrid man-beast-thing. Their idolatry was obvious. Today, leftists and others don't bother with the little statues, but their practice of worshiping a "god" of their own making (essentially, worshiping themselves) is still idolatry.

[NYer]

Thanks for the post and ping. You commented Chris Matthew’s is scared to death, just curious but what makes you feel this way.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Oh, any by the way, here's some contact information:

Diocese of Providence - 401/278-4500
Office of Communications - 401/278-4600
kdavis@dioceseofprovidence.org

---

My fan letter to Bishop Tobin

Bishop Thomas Tobin
1 Cathedral Square
Providence, RI 02903

We're grateful for what you said to Patrick Kennedy. Moreover, we're grateful for the way you said it. Plain language. Not a load of equivocating ecclesiastical bafflegab. Charitable, truthful, and to the point.

A good example for every one of us.

We will pray for the timely repentance of Patrick Kennedy.

And we will thank God--- and thank you --- that it is still possible to find a Catholic in the hierarchy.

Sincerely,

The [Don-o and Mrs. Don-o] Family

[Ransomed]

The worst nightmare of the pro-baby butchery crowd is if the bishops start treating abortion like what they say it is. It scares them to death.

Freegards

[RnMomof7]

They( the liberal abortion advocates) love saying they are Catholic...it sounds so good, so TOLERANT.. but maybe he could be the next Kennedy...and wouldn’t that be sweet??

Happy Thanksgiving NYer